Has anyone experienced true enlightenment .
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Infact, as a scientist, I see that it is a science.Normaly for science to be accepted as science, an observation must be accompanied by a hypothesis, which is then proven as a theory.
I’m not a scientist but I’m very scientifically minded, and I’m also trying to get my thoughts together regarding spirituality, yoga and God. Right now, I’m looking at yoga, kundalini, etc etc as more of a model. Sort of like Freud’s model of the mind: (Example Model) Freud’s model of the mind includes an ego, id, and superego. There is no structure in the brain that you can point to and say ‘this is the ego’. But Freud’s model is still useful because people can all be seen as having an ego, superego and id. The model is descriptive, and makes accurate predictions. In this sense, it is ‘true’ or ‘correct’. The ’science’ of yoga looks at the body, god, and the world based on people’s subjective experiences and explains the sensations in terms of ‘energy’. In that sense, it is an ‘energy model’. ‘Kundalini’ is considered an energy. ‘Chakras’ are considered to be energy centers. But the interesting this is everyone seems to have similar subjective experiences! In this sense, the ‘correctness’ of the model can be determined on whether it is descriptive, and predictive.
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Thank you all for the replies. However I am a little confused. Is it not the ultimate goal of yoga and buddhism to achieve liberation from the cycle or reincarnation? To join with the creator?
I counted 2 goals that you mentioned … 1. achieve liberation from the cycle or reincarnation 2. join with the creator About 1: This is a longtime goal you can find mostly in buddhism – needs many lifes to realize it. About 2: You are allready joined with the creator. Creator and Creation are 1 What we only need is to realize it – to become aware of it. Yoga is about awareness in the NOW and not so much about a longtime goal. From what I understood from the books I read ,
Don’t read that much books – this indeed only can lead to confusion. Start practicing! this can only occur once the person has experienced samadhi.
Indeed? Interesting … but it’s only spiritual blabla as long as you don’t find it out yourself through practice. Just words, thaughts …. Where all is understood and not just taken as a truth without ever having experienced it.
There is no true understanding of the truth through books. Of course to reach this state, many processes must have happened beforehand, which are very beneficial to the person and all others.
lol Of course … Another wise sounding spiritual blabla sentence 
) I am happy the way I now am, without yoga. I am not stressed, sick nor lonely. I dont want to practice yoga to solve a problem I have. I just dont want to waste this life.
That’s a very good starting point to begin with the practice! If there is a God I want to experience him. I actually want to realise his existance without doubt nor faith. I dont want to just believe that there is a god, I want to use a scientific method to find him.
Whatever your method is to reach whatever you want to reach – start using it I am scientifically minded, that is why I took on raja yoga because out of all the paths available, it is the one which seems most attractive to me.
That’s ok. Basically I dont want to practice hatha/raja yoga, just to feel good,live longer and live a pure life.
Hm? What’s that? 1. "that is why I took on raja yoga" 2. "I dont want to practice hatha/raja yoga" Stop confusing yourself! Many people dont practice yoga and are not even religious, but love and care for people and animals more than can be imagined .
Are you affraid to take a step on the path? Sounds to me as if you want "security" a guarantee for success that you reach what you want to reach. This guarantee can’t be given it comes to the issues of life. Buddha said: Everything in this world is ever-changing and never stays the same. If we adopt this proper attitude to observe all worldly changes, then these changes will no longer be able to affect our mind. I want to use the proven methods of pranayama to experience and join our creator. Is this wrong?
Whatever let’s you start practicing is "right" – whatever keeps you away from it is "wrong". — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, What you say is perfectly correct. The ultimate aim is to achieve yoga, or connection with the all pervading power, or self-realisation. The only person who is doing this at this time is Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, founder of Sahaja Yoga world-wide who opened the Sahastrara, the last chakra on 5th May 1970 and has been giving self-realisation freely en-masse around the world for the last 30 years. I suggest you go to a Sahaja Yoga centre, or visit the website http://www.sahajayoga.org to find out where your nearest centre is. You don’t need to stand on your head, go to the Himalayas or fast to achieve self-realisation. All you need to do is ask for it in the correct manner. Peter
Peter, How exactly did you learn that Shri Devi is The ONLY person who is doing this at this time?? I COULD offer some other Jim R devotee of SRF/Yogananda houston Tx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you all for the replies. However I am a little confused. Is it not the ultimate goal of yoga and buddhism to achieve liberation from the cycle or reincarnation? To join with the creator? From what I understood from the books I read , this can only occur once the person has experienced samadhi. Where all is understood and not just taken as a truth without ever having experienced it. Of course to reach this state, many processes must have happened beforehand, which are very beneficial to the person and all others. I am happy the way I now am, without yoga. I am not stressed, sick nor lonely. I dont want to practice yoga to solve a problem I have. I just dont want to waste this life. If there is a God I want to experience him. I actually want to realise his existance without doubt nor faith. I dont want to just believe that there is a god, I want to use a scientific method to find him. I am scientifically minded, that is why I took on raja yoga because out of all the paths available, it is the one which seems most attractive to me. Basically I dont want to practice hatha/raja yoga, just to feel good,live longer and live a pure life. Many people dont practice yoga and are not even religious, but love and care for people and animals more than can be imagined . I want to use the proven methods of pranayama to experience and join our creator. Is this wrong?
Before you buy.
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However, I have practiced total sexual abstinence…"It’s for me". I have to sacrifice in order to help others heal through my massage therapy.
I have decided to experiment with short term celibacy ( total sexual abstinence ) for various reasons, but mostly to improve my health ( rundown endocrine systems..adrenals, thyroid…slow recuperative powers …I am being treated by an MD ). I’d sort of like to know what is ahead of me, but you would be surprised what a dearth of information there is out there about it. Some men into tantra practice orgasms without ejaculation….there is supposed to be something special about sperm. Would this practice bring the same or differnt results as total sexual abstinence. Does total sexual abstinence get easier to handle with time? I’ve been doing it for a week now. So far it is a trade off for me. I have more energy, but it is harder for me to think at work. I also get a lot of muscular tension in back, though this has eased up a little since I started visualizing all of that tension moving up out of my back into the rest of my body. Any information about doing this for the long term would be appreciated. Steve
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Yes it took many years to dig deep into my deepest darkest memories….so it was done slowly as I progressed…When it was revealed to me what caused my bitterness..I became suicidal…So you see there is a reason for being allowed to deal with only what you can tolerate at the time..Had I not been so strong it would have been devastating to me. However..In my heart I forgave someone. Obviously the message was conveyed to this person. by supernatural powers .beyond me.Within a week my phone rang. It was that person asking forgiveness for what he had done to me as a child. I called a therapist to explain.An appointment was made immediately..She said when it is revealed to someone (such a horrible thing it is critical to talk) but I was ok….. She said most people never have their darkest pain revealed to them..It’s too much to bear..I’m so happy and have no more hate inside…..Sorry to Ramble so much!! Katherine I wanna get back to where I was a few months ago,,no more cyber etc
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Has anyone ever levitated?
YES!
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Has anyone ever levitated?
I do levitate myself every morning out of my bed. — Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
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Steve wrote [[I'd like to think that if somoene did reach some high spritual goal that they would have something better to do with their time then hang on usenet.]] ** And what do you think enlightened individuals do? Sit in deep contemplation all day? You teach. You guide. You live your life with eyes open. Om Santi … Sakti Lalita
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I have experienced it all I suppose. Doing serious meditation..sometimes for 8 hours…seeming to last only a short while…never wanting to leave. I suppose it took me…. hmmm… 8-10 years. I don’t think it is just given to you for the asking. I really wanted it and it took years to clear my mind and replace it with total honesty concerning everything in my life.And total forgiveness. Healing will come with yoga and meditation only if you practice with a sincere heart and good intentions for everyone no matter whom they are. However, I have practiced total sexual abstinence…"It’s for me". I have to sacrifice in order to help others heal through my massage therapy..I was told this by the God I believe in. Yes I do, and have (many times) had direct contact with God. I need a little help.. I learned to cyber.I want to stop..I am very strong..but have lost my ability to stop..even though I only do it once in a while. I’ve been looking for my type people on here,since i don’t attend my meditation classes, I miss that wonderful feeling… as we all finished and hugged. I do hope this group will grow and that i will fit in. Sincerely Katherine PS There is no other feeling that can compare to having direct contact..I have never felt such intense love..Hope you all will help teach me some things. I am very open minded and listen to all things in order to form my own opinions but I keep my opinions to myself…Anything and everything is possible. I am of no particular religion….Just all of them combined so that I may receive even greater insight… LOVE YOU ALL
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Peter, what you wrote is a contradiction in itself:
…or self-realisation. The only person who is doing this at this time is
Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi … … who has been *giving* self-realisation freely en-masse …
Self-realisation is just that: realising *your own self/Self*. No one else can do that for you. All a Guru can do is show you the Way. And if you are Blissed he might give you a taste, so to speak, of what it is like. But you and only you yourself can realise it! Just like thinking, no one els can think your thoughts for you! OM Shanti
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This NG is alt. yoga. Most of the people who read it are actually interested in yoga. If you aren’t, chances are you won’t get much from the NG. If, as you say you are happy, don’t want to practice any branch of yoga, and want some scientific methods, go to science for them. Yoga is called the pathless path. I’ve found nothing of the sort of proof you are looking for here. Practice is without goal, it’s practice. peace, sandra
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Yes I’ve heard from a few people that yoga is a pathless path, but doesn’t that sound like a waste of time then? Why would anyone do anything if there is no goal?
Do you only do things that have a goal? Don’t let that hear your girlfriend! What is the goal in loving somebody? What is the goal in painting a picture? What is the goal in laughing? Do you have sex only for the goal to create little humans or the goal to let your girlfriend have 11 orgasms? There are many things to do that only can be enjoyed without a goal. Surely, even though it may be detrimental to want a goal to occur, it is because a goal is achievable that yoga is practiced.
Many may do it this way, but that does not say that it’s right. One might as well practice something easier than yoga, such as sleeping if there is nothing to be gained.
Oh, sleeping is very good! You gain so much through sleeping! And ppl usually don’t sleep enough and at the wrong times nowadays. My Yogamaster once said: if we would just go for a 2 hours walk in the woods every day – we wouldn’t need to do Yoga. Indeed you can do other things. And maybe they are easier … Even if it is for a better quality of life, that is still a goal.
The difference is: A goal is something in the future. Yoga is NOW. Yoga even states that there are many paths to the same conlusion,
Even sleeping and walking through the woods … that’s indeed not the "badest" Yogapath. meaning that all religions also lead to the same path. Buddhism is so similar to yoga.
Well, in some ways … They do meditate too – and there is even a buddhist form of Yoga called Kum Nye. You can find out more about it at: http://members.xoom.com/altyoga/ It depends on your definition of religion if you see simillarities between Yoga and Religions. Many aspects are so very similar, and they certainly have a goal.
I quote Buddhas Heart Sutra here: Most people hold on to the past, look forward to the future, and do not embrace the present. Only those who can appreciate what they have now live fully. Heart Sutra You see? What you have NOW. Another quote: When we understand the true nature of existence, which is an ever-changing and endless cycle of life and death… and when we dissolve into this process of existence, there are no more problems of birth, aging, illness and death. Heart sutra Dissolving into the process – this you can only do NOW Another quote: Thinking won’t get to Truth It is beyond the mind Just be and see Lee J. Todd This is VERY important! To go beyond the mind – NOW Another quote that makes it more clear maybe: There is no question of going anywhere, arriving anywhere, or doing anything; you are there already. Nisagardata And another buddhist monk says: It is because of our attachment to things that we suffer. By letting go we find that we have not lost anything except our attachment. — Sogyal Rinpoche At least this also means to let go from the attachment to the non-attachment! Many monks are very much attached to this … And Osho says: Life is not something waiting for you it is happening in you — Osho But at least, not to confuse you too much, a hint a buddhist monk is giving you: Above all, don’t wish to become a future Buddha; Your only concern should be, As thought follows thought, To avoid clinging to any of them. Dogen That’s it. Avoid clinging to any thoughts. It may be selfish want a goal, but it doesn not mean that there isnt one. If there is no goal whatsoever in yoga, it would be a waste of time, really just think about someone practicing yoga for 60 years of their life all for nothing, now that is a waste.
It’s like saying: "he had been a lover 60 years of his life, what a waste of time … " You miss that practicing Yoga can be a lot of joy! It’s not an necessary evil stuff you have to do in order to reach something really nice. Yoga itself is fun – otherwise you wouldn’t practice it for 60 years (if you would do it for such a long time without having fun you really must be stupid!) The problem with all this goal thinking is: You focus your energy on something in the future. Of course you can have certain plans, even in Yoga. But the goal should not be to fullfill them in the future, but to do it NOW, in this moment, and to do what’s possible NOW. Because: the only moment you can realize your oneness is NOW and not in the future. And you have to try it NOW and you have to relax NOW, etc… and not in some future days. That’s all Yoga is about – the NOW. Of course, if you add all these NOW’S and look back you can see that you walked a path. And this is a very personal path, maybe nobody before walked this path. And definetely nobody can walk it for you. And with every step you make you work on creating this path. A path in spiritual terms is at least allways something that only can be seen when you look back. It’s not that there are predesigned path’s you can simply walk along and will be enlightened. Because everybody creates it’s own personal path. Maybe someday you will cross another persons path and you will walk along together for some time … sharing your individual paths together and than someday both of you go again your own personal ways. Some ppl may try to tell you that they have a predesigned path. It’s comfortable, a highway to heaven – some even say that they have build the only street on this planet: "The ultimate aim is to achieve yoga, or connection with the all pervading power, or self-realisation. The only person who is doing this at this time is Shri …" That’s not true. Nobody can walk your steps for you. You are alone. You have to make your steps in life alone. And someday you have to die alone. That’s it. Beeing All-one. I can tell you that this beeing Al(l)-one is a very nice feeling. It has nothing of the "beeing lonely". (I hope this is not too confusing … 
If I am a part of god, then the reason why I am alive is to reunite with him, according to yoga.
Now, this is really interesting!! You ARE a part of God and you still want to try to reunite with him??? I bet God would think of this as something ver silly to try Like a banana who wants to be a banana. Why not relaxing and enjoying beeing a part of it? Surely this is a goal for anyone?
No, that’s not shure! Many ppl don’t have this goal. Maby I have not grasped your meaning of a pathless path, but a path is called a path because it leads to something.
You never know WHERE it leads! And as I said – in spiritual terms you create your own path with every step you make. (Isn’t that Karma is about??) With all this confusion Ciao for now
Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
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Has anyone ever levitated? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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Newsgroups: alt.yoga The only person who is doing this at this time is Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi,
I hope all the other yoga teachers in the world will be able to find jobs now that someone else has gotten it right and rendered them obsolete.
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Hi, What you say is perfectly correct. The ultimate aim is to achieve yoga, or connection with the all pervading power, or self-realisation. The only person who is doing this at this time is Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi,
Warning: ALLWAYS be alerted when you hear / read a sentence like the one above! 1st – no one can give you self-realisation. It wouldn’t be named self-realisation but alien-realisation if it can be given by somebody else. 2nd – no one can be "the only one doing self-realisation" – it would be against the existence (and very sad if that would be true). As if you would say "she’s the only one on the planet that’s breathing". Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh
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Hi, What you say is perfectly correct. The ultimate aim is to achieve yoga, or connection with the all pervading power, or self-realisation. The only person who is doing this at this time is Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, founder of Sahaja Yoga world-wide who opened the Sahastrara, the last chakra on 5th May 1970 and has been giving self-realisation freely en-masse around the world for the last 30 years. I suggest you go to a Sahaja Yoga centre, or visit the website http://www.sahajayoga.org to find out where your nearest centre is. You don’t need to stand on your head, go to the Himalayas or fast to achieve self-realisation. All you need to do is ask for it in the correct manner. Peter
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you all for the replies. However I am a little confused. Is it not the ultimate goal of yoga and buddhism to achieve liberation from the cycle or reincarnation? To join with the creator? From what I understood from the books I read , this can only occur once the person has experienced samadhi. Where all is understood and not just taken as a truth without ever having experienced it. Of course to reach this state, many processes must have happened beforehand, which are very beneficial to the person and all others. I am happy the way I now am, without yoga. I am not stressed, sick nor lonely. I dont want to practice yoga to solve a problem I have. I just dont want to waste this life. If there is a God I want to experience him. I actually want to realise his existance without doubt nor faith. I dont want to just believe that there is a god, I want to use a scientific method to find him. I am scientifically minded, that is why I took on raja yoga because out of all the paths available, it is the one which seems most attractive to me. Basically I dont want to practice hatha/raja yoga, just to feel good,live longer and live a pure life. Many people dont practice yoga and are not even religious, but love and care for people and animals more than can be imagined . I want to use the proven methods of pranayama to experience and join our creator. Is this wrong?
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I’d like to think that if somoene did reach some high spritual goal that they would have something better to do with their time then hang on usenet. No offense Steve
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Hi, Please try the Sahaja Yoga website at http://www.sahajayoga.org Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi has been travelling the world for the last 30 years giving self-realisation to anyone who desires it. Now in over 100 countries there are many centres conducting free programmes. Regards, Peter
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I have started yoga a few weeks ago (hatha/ raja) with the hope that it will enable me to find ‘the truth’ . I am wondering if any of you readers have actually experienced self realisation. By self realisation I actually mean that. Not a strange trembling , weird feelings etc. I am not interested in joining clubs , buying books etc. I just want plain and simple truth from someone who can honestly say that they did experience samadhi, even if for a short moment. Plese reply to this group or send me an email (remove the X first!)
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Thank you all for the replies. However I am a little confused. Is it not the ultimate goal of yoga and buddhism to achieve liberation from the cycle or reincarnation? To join with the creator? From what I understood from the books I read , this can only occur once the person has experienced samadhi. Where all is understood and not just taken as a truth without ever having experienced it. Of course to reach this state, many processes must have happened beforehand, which are very beneficial to the person and all others. I am happy the way I now am, without yoga. I am not stressed, sick nor lonely. I dont want to practice yoga to solve a problem I have. I just dont want to waste this life. If there is a God I want to experience him. I actually want to realise his existance without doubt nor faith. I dont want to just believe that there is a god, I want to use a scientific method to find him. I am scientifically minded, that is why I took on raja yoga because out of all the paths available, it is the one which seems most attractive to me. Basically I dont want to practice hatha/raja yoga, just to feel good,live longer and live a pure life. Many people dont practice yoga and are not even religious, but love and care for people and animals more than can be imagined . I want to use the proven methods of pranayama to experience and join our creator. Is this wrong?
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When I get out of my own way, I am – just that. Enlightening, yes!!!! peace, sandra
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… yes. Om Santi … Sakti Lalita
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Organization: The University of Western Australia Newsgroups: alt.yoga Thank you all for the replies. However I am a little confused.
That is the best place to start – confusion. You have no choice but to move towards centering. Is it not the ultimate goal of yoga and buddhism to achieve liberation from the cycle or reincarnation? To join with the creator?
Buddhism and Yoga are two different things. Yoga has no ultimate goal, if your doing it-you are there. From what I understood from the books I read , this can only occur once the person has experienced samadhi. Where all is understood and not just taken as a truth without ever having experienced it.
You are already in samadhi, as you practice the veil that obscures it is lifted. At first as a brief glimpse, as you continue more profound insights. Of course to reach this state, many processes must have happened beforehand, which are very beneficial to the person and all others. I am happy the way I now am, without yoga. I am not stressed, sick nor lonely. I dont want to practice yoga to solve a problem I have. I just dont want to waste this life. If there is a God I want to experience him. I actually want to realise his existance without doubt nor faith. I dont want to just believe that there is a god, I want to use a scientific method to find him. I am scientifically minded, that is why I took on raja yoga because out of all the paths available, it is the one which seems most attractive to me. Basically I dont want to practice hatha/raja yoga, just to feel good,live longer and live a pure life.
Why not? Many people dont practice yoga and are not even religious, but love and care for people and animals more than can be imagined . I want to use the proven methods of pranayama to experience and join our creator. Is this wrong?
Yoga in the US is taking new shapes. In India for many centuries it was something for monks hidden away in caves. Many masters have taught yoga to our culture and it has been retaught for us Westerners who have jobs and are "in the world". You can make it what you will. The trick is a consistent and routine practice.
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Hello, I have started yoga a few weeks ago (hatha/ raja) with the hope that it will enable me to find ‘the truth’ . I am wondering if any of you readers have actually experienced self realisation. By self realisation I actually mean that. Not a strange trembling , weird feelings etc. I am not interested in joining clubs , buying books etc. I just want plain and simple truth from someone who can honestly say that they did experience samadhi, even if for a short moment. Plese reply to this group or send me an email (remove the X first!)
Dear ronny, Let me share these wise words by wise human beeings with you. Thank you. Sat Nam – Hari Har Singh Truth is perfect and complete in itself. It is not something newly discovered; it has always existed. Truth is not far away. It is nearer than near. There is no need to attain it, since not one of your steps leads away from it. Dogen Rather than looking to gain what you do not have, realize what you have already. Anon I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty! Kabir To attain knowledge, add things every day. To attain wisdom, remove things every day. Tao te ching What is true Zazen? When you become you. Shunryu Suzuki In any environment, you are the environment itself. At any time, you are the time itself. Every time and every place is uniquely different. There is no need to compare it with any other time and other place. Just carefully taste the present – that is enough. Tsai Chih Everything in this world is ever-changing and never stays the same. If we adopt this proper attitude to observe all worldly changes, then these changes will no longer be able to affect our mind. Buddha When we understand the true nature of existence, which is an ever-changing and endless cycle of life and death… and when we dissolve into this process of existence, there are no more problems of birth, aging, illness and death. Heart sutra Truths cannot be acquired from words out of other people’s mouths. Before Truths can be internalized, they must come from one’s own realizations and practices. Through a lifetime of personal practice, human beings are capable of revealing all of the secrets of the cosmic essence. You are your own best judge. Siddhartha The truth is in you just think but don’t think too hard oh, and have fun Source unknown
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It is a good objective to want truth. Don’t we all in the end? Self realisation, truth, peace of mind, enlightenment, these words all point in the same direction: happiness and peace. We usually are told that looking for peace of mind and enlightenment is fun. But alas for most of us it isn’t, and it can’t be bought either. In my opinion yoga is about taming your ego, reducing it, and learning that your own likes and dislikes do not have a lot of value. They can merely guide you a bit. But trying to mold your environment and the people around you to your own preferences is not the way to find peace of mind or enlightenment. But nevertheless that is what most people do. Looking for approval from others, and emotional and physical kicks. What all this yoga and meditation and karma yoga is about, I think is to become more aware and see these processes. Once you start to realise the truth of your own life, of the triviality of all this, not just know, you will start to see everything different, and not care anymore about enlightenment or creating your own self realisation, but just experience compassion, and not fear death a lot. This is absolutely a process that causes pain in your body and mind. But very necessary as well. Good luck with your raja yoga. Maarten – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I have started yoga a few weeks ago (hatha/ raja) with the hope that it will enable me to find ‘the truth’ . I am wondering if any of you readers have actually experienced self realisation. By self realisation I actually mean that. Not a strange trembling , weird feelings etc. I am not interested in joining clubs , buying books etc. I just want plain and simple truth from someone who can honestly say that they did experience samadhi, even if for a short moment. Plese reply to this group or send me an email (remove the X first!)
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Hello, I have started yoga a few weeks ago (hatha/ raja) with the hope that it will enable me to find ‘the truth’ . I am wondering if any of you readers have actually experienced self realisation. By self realisation I actually mean that. Not a strange trembling , weird feelings etc. I am not interested in joining clubs , buying books etc. I just want plain and simple truth from someone who can honestly say that they did experience samadhi, even if for a short moment. Plese reply to this group or send me an email (remove the X first!)
