Taoism and illegitimate dualities

Question:

>to acheive buddhahood is very very very very hard. it is all

The Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath

Question:

Austin – An authoritative and factual, substantiated list was released today that indicates the following persons have been totally discredited on the alt.meditation newsgroup, being on record that they lied, big time, about the the Maharishi and the World Plan. It has been reported, on good authority, that the following individuals are now ‘personas nona grata’ at TMO Vlodrop, Netherlands, because of their failure to grasp even the most rudimentary, fundametal and basic principles of the Science of Creative Intelligence. Apparently, they can’t even think straight so they are big losers and they all got waxed real good for fib-telling and stretching the truth on this forum. None of these individuals would even be permitted on the MUM campus, let lone inside a Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge. Their names are mud all over Vedic City, IA,  Radience, TX. AND they are not welcome at NOIDA, India, either! Apparently, even their names have been removed from the MERU database at Siddhadorp, NL – they will no longer recieve ANY reports of breakthroughs concerning advanced relaxation techniques, health or home tips, preventative medication, alchemical healing, or scientific, physiolocial mind/body correlations AND they must be getting all their Vedic Yogic Flying news by subscribing to this list. Foreign Devils on the Silk Road! They all got waxed real good for lying. The current anti-TM list (in order of miscreancy): Robert Kropinsky John Lennon Mia Farrow John Doe Malnak John Knapp Mike Doughney Joe Kellet Mike Kelly Don Krieger Mr and Mrs Peter Skeeter Lon P. Stacks Andrew A. Skolnick Robin Carlton Joyce Collins-Smith Kathy What’s-Her-Name Steve Perino Marci Perino Jeff Ridley Ned Wynn Kirt Berkhardt John Manning Tom Anderson Barry Wright

My thanks go to Dana Sawyer of Maine College of Art, who kindly shared with me the results of his field studies and interviews. See also his article, "Monastic Structure of Banarsi Dandi Sadhus" in Living Banaras: Hindu Religion in Cultural Context, ed. Hertel, Bradley R. and Cynthia Humes, Albany: State University of New York Press, 1993, and his forthcoming publication(s) on the Dandi Sadhus. In fact there is no real Shankaracharya of Jyorirmath because that lineage was extinct. There are many complex questions to be resolved.

The real question is why has the Swami Swaroopanand turned the Jyotirmath tradition into a politcal football. It is well-known that Swaroopanand has close ties to the Congress Party and to Sonia Gandhi. Swaroopanand has been reported to be opposed to the VHP, the Kanchi Matha, and the Mahesh Yogi’s programs. One wondors why the will has been questioned by theSwami Prakashanand as well, and what is his agenda? It is well known that the Swami Prakashanand is under the influence of a Vishnuite baba of Vrindavan. In my opinion, once the committee apointed Swami Brahmanand to be the Shankaracharya they should have not attempted any other interference. I’m a strong advocate of the desciplic succession and it is clear that Guru Dev wanted one of his own desciples to succeed him, Swami Shantanand who was specified in a will. First, the will has been strongly contested…

As I previously pointed out, Guru Dev’s will hasn’t been contested in an Indian court of law and the recent court rulling didn’t obviate the will, since Swami Vasudevanand remains in possession of the Jyotirmath and the Allahabad Shankar Math established by Swami Brahmanand. And I’m told that Vasudevananda is also in possession of all the accoutrements once used by Guru Dev, the Throne, the fly whisk, the beads, and Guru Dev’s sandals. These are all on display at the Shankar Math at Allahabad. In addition there are reports that millions of devotees worship His Holiness Swami Vasudevanand as the embodiment of Shankaracharya. At a recent Kumbh Mela Vasudevananda performed puja with close to a thousand other Dandi Swamis and thousands of devout pilgrims at the Shankar Matha. I’ve read many positive reports in the Indian press that describe Vasudevanand as the rightful Shankaracharya, including ‘Hinduism Today’ and the ‘Times of India.’ William Cenkner, the author of the scholarly work, ‘Shankara and the Jagadgurus Today’, makes the point that the successor of Swami Brahmanada is Swami Shantanand and he describes the the Dasanami tradition in some detail. so if Vasudevananda is in the lineage as defined by the will then that is a problem (too bad Brahmananda didn’t make his wishes clear verbally before he died).

It has not been demonstrated that there is a problem with Guru Dev’s will. According to the official biography of Swami Brahmanand there was no doubt in the minds of his desciples as to the intent of the will and it was very plain who was specified therein. According to my sources the will was handwritten and in English and specified Swami Shantanad as the first to be considered. Also, there’s no evidence that Brahmanand didn’t verbally make his wishes clear. He may have done so on a number of occasions, but maybe only his secretary knows for sure! Second, since the lineage of Jyotirmath had been extinct, Brahmananda wasn’t in disciplic succession with it – so even if we accept the will, Vasudevananda is only inarguably the disciple of Brahmananda and not necessarily the lineage holder of Jyotirmath.

I’ve also pointed out previously that the mere possession of the Jyotirmath property in the succession dispute has no great bearing on who the real Shankaracharya is. If it were, Vasudevanand would prevail hands down, since he’s in possession of most of the Jyotirmath property. In fact, it’s a title that’s at stake in the dispute. In this sense the dispute reaches a moot point because in fact there’s no evidence that Shankara established any mathas at all – it’s just a mythic tradition. So, if the devotees on the ground in India believe that Vasudevanand is a Shankaraycharya and revere him as such, and Vasudevanannd looks and acts like a Shankaracharya, and he is assumed to be the successor to Guru Dev, and no material evidnce is presented to the contrary, then Vasudevanand probably is a Shankaracharya. Karpatri chose Brahmananda for the post and saw no reason why he shouldn’t pick his successor if the will was disputed and Shantananda wasn’t qualified.

This would probably be considered to be an affront by Swami Brahmanand himself, since Guru Dev was the teacher of Karpatri. There’s another rumor on the Internet that Swami Prakashanand was once offered the seat of the Shankaracharya. This claim has been discredited by Mr. Sundersan, but Ive read that there are over 150 other claimants to the status of Shankaracharya in North India alone! In one case an illiterate farmer was ruled by a civil court to be worthy of the title Shankaracharya. As for being qualified, I’ve read several reports that attested to Shantanand’s spiritual insights. But this objection seems to be a smokescreen for somthing else. After all, it’s possible to learn Sanskrit in a few years, not to mention that Shantanand lived into his eighties, so I don’t see how Shantanand wouldn’t have learned a lot of Sanskrit in that length of time, after all, his Adi Guru, Trotaka Shankaracharya, was illiterate. The ‘unfit’ argument doesn’t hold much water with me – it’s a technicality, and in the bhakti tradition could be a hindrance. Apparently Sri Krishna Chaitanya Bharati wrote only sixteen slokas in his entire lifetime. The point is that ANYONE could be appointed by a committee, to be the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, but only Swami Vasudevanada Saraswati is the successor to Swami Brahmananda in the disciplic succession. Again, you mean he was the successor of the "anyone" who was Brahmananda, who WAS appointed by a committee.

I mean that Vasudevanand would be the successor to Brahmanand even without Guru Dev being a Shankaracharya appointed by a committee. For example, Mahesh Yogi was Brahmanand’s desciple at least a year or two before Guru Dev became the Shankaracharya. In that case and others it matters not if Brahmananda had accepted the Seat of the Shankaracharya. The point that I’m trying to make is that the ‘Jyotirmath’ and the ‘Shankaracharya’ is a myth, and the dispute is about a title, neither of which have anything to do with the guru-desciple relationship or succession. The ’seat’ of the Shankaracharya of the North is a political issue, not a spiritual issue. It matters not if the Swami Vasudevananda is THE Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath. In fact Swami Vasudevanada Saraswati is the Shankaracharya of Allahabad based on the fact that Guru Dev established the Shankar Matha in Allahabad where his sandals rest on the Mandir – that makes the Sankar Math worthy of worship and a sacred Peeth. No it most certainly does not.

In fact, any holy spot can become a Peeth due to the association with a revered Saint. For the desciples of Guru Dev every single spot of earth that he touched upon is a sacred Peeth. Guru Dev’s sandals are on the Mandir at the Shankar Matha – that’s what a Mandir and a Peeth is, a holy spot. But technically, Jyotirmath and Badrika were both previously famous Buddhist shrines built to honor Shakya the Muni and the idol that was fished out of the river by Shankara was a statue of Buddha himself! I’m not sure who’s feeding you this ethnography but it’s wrong.

Maybe so, but I read books and I traveled to India, and I’m about a mile from one of the largest temples outside India. I get a lot of information from the resident Swami there, Prakashanand Saraswati, at Barsana Dham. According to the Swami he is one of the direct desciples of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati. I don’t agree with everything the Swami says and I don’t agree with all that his desciples have to say.

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Response:

My thanks go to Dana Sawyer of Maine College of Art, who kindly shared with me the results of his field studies and interviews. See also his article, "Monastic Structure of Banarsi Dandi Sadhus" in Living Banaras: Hindu Religion in Cultural Context, ed. Hertel, Bradley R. and Cynthia Humes, Albany: State University of New York Press, 1993, and his forthcoming publication(s) on the Dandi Sadhus. In fact there is no real Shankaracharya of Jyorirmath because that lineage was extinct. There are many complex questions to be resolved.

The real question is why has the Swami Swaroopanand turned the Jyotirmath tradition into a politcal football. It is well-known that Swaroopanand has close ties to the Congress Party and to Sonia Gandhi. Swaroopanand has been reported to be opposed to the VHP, the Kanchi Matha, and the Mahesh Yogi’s programs. One wondors why the will has been questioned by theSwami Prakashanand as well, and what is his agenda? It is well known that the Swami Prakashanand is under the influence of a Vishnuite baba of Vrindavan. In my opinion, once the committee apointed Swami Brahmanand to be the Shankaracharya they should have not attempted any other interference. I’m a strong advocate of the desciplic succession and it is clear that Guru Dev wanted one of his own desciples to succeed him, Swami Shantanand who was specified in a will. First, the will has been strongly contested…

As I previously pointed out, Guru Dev’s will hasn’t been contested in an Indian court of law and the recent court rulling didn’t obviate the will, since Swami Vasudevanand remains in possession of the Jyotirmath and the Allahabad Shankar Math established by Swami Brahmanand. And I’m told that Vasudevananda is also in possession of all the accoutrements once used by Guru Dev, the Throne, the fly whisk, the beads, and Guru Dev’s sandals. These are all on display at the Shankar Math at Allahabad. In addition there are reports that millions of devotees worship His Holiness Swami Vasudevanand as the embodiment of Shankaracharya. At a recent Kumbh Mela Vasudevananda performed puja with close to a thousand other Dandi Swamis and thousands of devout pilgrims at the Shankar Matha. I’ve read many positive reports in the Indian press that describe Vasudevanand as the rightful Shankaracharya, including ‘Hinduism Today’ and the ‘Times of India.’ William Cenkner, the author of the scholarly work, ‘Shankara and the Jagadgurus Today’, makes the point that the successor of Swami Brahmanada is Swami Shantanand and he describes the the Dasanami tradition in some detail. so if Vasudevananda is in the lineage as defined by the will then that is a problem (too bad Brahmananda didn’t make his wishes clear verbally before he died).

It has not been demonstrated that there is a problem with Guru Dev’s will. According to the official biography of Swami Brahmanand there was no doubt in the minds of his desciples as to the intent of the will and it was very plain who was specified therein. According to my sources the will was handwritten and in English and specified Swami Shantanad as the first to be considered. Also, there’s no evidence that Brahmanand didn’t verbally make his wishes clear. He may have done so on a number of occasions, but maybe only his secretary knows for sure! Second, since the lineage of Jyotirmath had been extinct, Brahmananda wasn’t in disciplic succession with it – so even if we accept the will, Vasudevananda is only inarguably the disciple of Brahmananda and not necessarily the lineage holder of Jyotirmath.

I’ve also pointed out previously that the mere possession of the Jyotirmath property in the succession dispute has no great bearing on who the real Shankaracharya is. If it were, Vasudevanand would prevail hands down, since he’s in possession of most of the Jyotirmath property. In fact, it’s a title that’s at stake in the dispute. In this sense the dispute reaches a moot point because in fact there’s no evidence that Shankara established any mathas at all – it’s just a mythic tradition. So, if the devotees on the ground in India believe that Vasudevanand is a Shankaraycharya and revere him as such, and Vasudevanannd looks and acts like a Shankaracharya, and he is assumed to be the successor to Guru Dev, and no material evidnce is presented to the contrary, then Vasudevanand probably is a Shankaracharya. Karpatri chose Brahmananda for the post and saw no reason why he shouldn’t pick his successor if the will was disputed and Shantananda wasn’t qualified.

This would probably be considered to be an affront by Swami Brahmanand himself, since Guru Dev was the teacher of Karpatri. There’s another rumor on the Internet that Swami Prakashanand was once offered the seat of the Shankaracharya. This claim has been discredited by Mr. Sundersan, but Ive read that there are over 150 other claimants to the status of Shankaracharya in North India alone! In one case an illiterate farmer was ruled by a civil court to be worthy of the title Shankaracharya. As for being qualified, I’ve read several reports that attested to Shantanand’s spiritual insights. But this objection seems to be a smokescreen for somthing else. After all, it’s possible to learn Sanskrit in a few years, not to mention that Shantanand lived into his eighties, so I don’t see how Shantanand wouldn’t have learned a lot of Sanskrit in that length of time, after all, his Adi Guru, Trotaka Shankaracharya, was illiterate. The ‘unfit’ argument doesn’t hold much water with me – it’s a technicality, and in the bhakti tradition could be a hindrance. Apparently Sri Krishna Chaitanya Bharati wrote only sixteen slokas in his entire lifetime. The point is that ANYONE could be appointed by a committee, to be the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, but only Swami Vasudevanada Saraswati is the successor to Swami Brahmananda in the disciplic succession. Again, you mean he was the successor of the "anyone" who was Brahmananda, who WAS appointed by a committee.

I mean that Vasudevanand would be the successor to Brahmanand even without Guru Dev being a Shankaracharya appointed by a committee. For example, Mahesh Yogi was Brahmanand’s desciple at least a year or two before Guru Dev became the Shankaracharya. In that case and others it matters not if Brahmananda had accepted the Seat of the Shankaracharya. The point that I’m trying to make is that the ‘Jyotirmath’ and the ‘Shankaracharya’ is a myth, and the dispute is about a title, neither of which have anything to do with the guru-desciple relationship or succession. The ’seat’ of the Shankaracharya of the North is a political issue, not a spiritual issue. It matters not if the Swami Vasudevananda is THE Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath. In fact Swami Vasudevanada Saraswati is the Shankaracharya of Allahabad based on the fact that Guru Dev established the Shankar Matha in Allahabad where his sandals rest on the Mandir – that makes the Sankar Math worthy of worship and a sacred Peeth. No it most certainly does not.

In fact, any holy spot can become a Peeth due to the association with a revered Saint. For the desciples of Guru Dev every single spot of earth that he touched upon is a sacred Peeth. Guru Dev’s sandals are on the Mandir at the Shankar Matha – that’s what a Mandir and a Peeth is, a holy spot. But technically, Jyotirmath and Badrika were both previously famous Buddhist shrines built to honor Shakya the Muni and the idol that was fished out of the river by Shankara was a statue of Buddha himself! I’m not sure who’s feeding you this ethnography but it’s wrong.

Maybe so, but I read books and I traveled to India, and I’m about a mile from one of the largest temples outside India. I get a lot of information from the resident Swami there, Prakashanand Saraswati, at Barsana Dham. According to the Swami he is one of the direct desciples of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati. I don’t agree with everything the Swami says and I don’t agree with all that his desciples have to say. The Shankaracaryas of all the amnaya vidyapiths maintain satellite maths all over India –

There’s a Shankaracarya satellite maths in Stroudsburg, Pa. and a Shankaracharya of Puri once visited Yogananda in Los Angeles. Brahmananda established a satelite matha at Allahabad. and especially in sacred cities like Banaras and Mela cities. But the Shankaracaryas have no authority over Shankara’s original plan and cannot establish new vidyapiths.

There’s no evidence that Shankara had an original plan to establish any mathas. I’ve read that the earliest known mention of four traditional mathas in any adwaita literature dates from the fourteenth century. In fact we may be even talking about a different Shankara. The authorities at the Kanchi matha insist that Adi Shankara lived in the fourth century B.C. before the birth of the historical Buddha. Swami Prakashanad has written a history book to explain this. The Shankara that I’m referring to wrote the Sutra Bhasya and debated with Buddhist logician such as Dharmakirti. In my opinion, the historical Shankara, circa 788 A.D., didn’t make any comments about establishing any mathas or vidyapiths. In fact, this is why Kanchi math is still not recognized by the other Shankaracaryas, because they believe the Sringeri acarya once made it a satellite, rather than believing, as the Kanchi faction claims, that Shankara established it himself.

Maybe so, but the so-called Shankaracharya of Kanchi has been very active in the affairs of the VHP, which in turn supports Vasudevanand. Allahabad was Brahmananda’s winter home; it isn’t a new vidyapith.

Allahabad has been a Peeth for at least two thousand years, that’s why they have a Kumbh Mela at that location. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s funny about you using this quote from Vidya’s website is that if you check his footnotes you’ll see that he got this

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Response:

neuroplasticity

Question:

I found this article interesting. Not directly on ADHD but on use of meditative techniques to change the structure of the brain. Long term, the implications for ADHD could be tremendous. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/01/08/1104832349658.html?onecl… This is indirect support for the underlying theory of neurofeedback. CK

Response:

I found this article interesting. Not directly on ADHD but on use of meditative techniques to change the structure of the brain. Long term, the implications for ADHD could be tremendous.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/01/08/1104832349658.html?onecl… This is indirect support for the underlying theory of neurofeedback.

Sorry, but it requires registration…. Buny

Response:

Sorry, but it requires registration…. Buny

Weird! When I went on, I just sailed right through! Tried it again now and you’re right. The article was about the effects of steady meditation on the brain structures of Buddhist monks. CK

Response:

Sorry, but it requires registration…. Buny Weird! When I went on, I just sailed right through! Tried it again now and you’re right.

Since it is free, I went ahead and registered…. The article was about the effects of steady meditation on the brain structures of Buddhist monks.

I thought it "sounded" familiar <g  I heard it a couple of days ago on National Public Radio (in US) on a program called "The World"  The page from the archive that has the audio is here: http://www.theworld.org/latesteditions/01/20050111.shtml  Click on "meditation interview." Buny

Response:

Sai Baba – A second-rate magician !!!

Question:

Tribute Sai: Hindu of Year Receives 1996 "Hindu Renaissance Award" Hinduism Today http://www.hindu.org December, 1996 With 1,638 centers in 137 countries, Satya Sai Baba guides the largest Hindu organization in the world today. Most Hindus remain unaware of the depth and breadth of his extensive worldwide programs spreading the ancient Vedic teachings. Hinduism Today bestowed its 1996 Hindu Renaissance Award upon this remarkable 70-year-old saint for his 56 years of service. The award carries a "Hindu of the Year" bronze plaque and a nominal honorarium of rs51,000. Since 1990 Hinduism Today has yearly honored one saint who has impacted the faith and spread its vastness, compassion and profundity. Dharma’s renaissance leaders have been: Swami Paramananda Bharati (‘90), Swami Chidananda Saraswati (‘91), Swami Chinmayananda (‘92), Mata Amritanandamayi (‘93), Swami Satchidananda (‘94) and Pramukhswami Maharaj (‘95). Satya Sai Baba’s far-reaching activities encompass children’s education, temple development, support of sadhus and Vedic scholars, medicine and rural development. His first outreach remains the one for which he is best known–bhajana–begun in 1940 when he was 14 years old. Today Sai’s followers are regarded as masters of devotional music. There is minimal organizational clutter in the thousands of local Sai groups. Followers are of all faiths and propound a staunch universalism. They collect no money and focus on discipline and purity of purpose. Devotees come together weekly to sing, returning home without engaging in socializing, gossip or politics. Bhajanas are sung in traditional languages, but also in local languages so all can participate. Sai’s Education in Human Values children’s course is taught in schools in 100 countries. With a strong religious orientation, it expounds five qualities: truth (satya), righteousness (dharma), peace (shanti), love (prema) and nonviolence (ahimsa). EHV rejects the rote learning, so often thought sufficient for education, emphasizing Indian techniques–silent sitting, quotation, storytelling, song and group activities. Sai Baba firmly advocates vegetarianism, stating, "Meat furthers the demonic qualities in you." Ahead of many in the world, he is very clear on the relationship between poor diet and poor health, and the impact of chemical farming methods in reducing the quality of the food grown. His us$18 million Puttaparthi heart hospital is just the latest in a vast spectrum of free medical services which include even major heart and brain surgery. He condemns doctors who profit from illness and advocates the principles of traditional ayurveda. He has endeared himself to villagers by offering veterinarian facilities which have prevented crippling diseases among cattle. His 1995 project brought safe drinking water to 800 villages through pipes and tube wells. Followers revere Sai Baba as Avatar, an incarnation of God. In 1976, he told Blitz magazine, "The present avatar [Sai] has come invested with the totality of cosmic power to save dharma from anti-dharma." Regarding his powers, he said in the same interview, "I can cure, save, even resurrect people, provided they are in a spiritually receptive mood. Whatever I will, instantly materializes." Indeed, millions profess to seeing him manifest physical objects. This inspires intense faith among devotees. Sai submits, "Miracles belong to the boundless power of God." Perhaps Sai Baba’s least appreciated power lies in his preaching. Twice each day he lectures articulately in Telegu to ample crowds, explaining with trenchant insight every aspect of Hinduism. A devotee said he understood God to be within us all. Baba corrected, "Not exactly. Think of it this way: you are like a fish swimming in the divine ocean that is God. God is above you, below you, inside and out." -From a Simple Village Life to World Acclaim as Divinity Incarnate 1918 Shirdi Sai Baba, proponent of Hindu-Muslim harmony, dies, prophesying he will reincarnate in eight years. 1926 Sathyanarayana Raju is born on November 23rd in the remote village of Puttaparthi, Andhra Pradesh, India. 1940 Satya Sai Baba tells family, "My devotees are waiting for me." Leaves home, begins bhajana movement. 1944 Devotees create ashrama near Sai’s home. It is Prasanthi Nilayam, "abode of supreme peace." 1957 Sai’s all-India tour attracts widespread attention. Ashrama is inundated with sadhus, shastris and students. 1965 Begins colleges which are now a major free university. Promotes all-India Bal Vihar children’s program. 1968 First International Sai Conference, implementation of the Education in Human Values program for schools. 1991 Opens free Shri Satya Sai Baba Institute of Medical Sciences on 150-acre campus. Promotes ayurveda system. 1995 Millions, including the Prime Minister of India, attend 70th birthday celebrations in Andhra Pradesh. End of forwarded message Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:      "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send peace, but a sword.      "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.      "And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.  - Matthew 10:34-36.      o  Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.      o  If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read, considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.      o  Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are not necessarily those of the poster.

Response:

Millions of people worship Sai Baba as God incarnate. More and more say the Indian guru is also a pedophile. Puttaparthi, India — One of the most powerful holy men in India presides over the world’s biggest ashram, Prasanthi Nilayam, or Abode of Peace, in a remote town located in a barren corner of Andhra Pradesh, a desperately poor state in a desperately poor country. The town boasts a shiny planetarium, two hospitals that treat patients for free, a college, a music school and immaculate, colorful playgrounds. Luxury apartment buildings are springing up on land that just a few decades ago was covered with ramshackle mud huts. And there’s a brand-new airport to serve the wealthier devotees of Sathya Sai Baba, a 75-year-old south Indian man with a big bushy Afro and a warm smile. Somewhere between 10 million and 50 million people worship Sai Baba as God incarnate, and they stream into Puttaparthi from six continents, sleeping in one of the ashram’s 10,000 beds or at one of the town’s many guesthouses. Meanwhile, the growing number of ex-devotees who decry their former master as a sexual harasser, a fraud and even a pedophile has hardly put a dent in his following, though their voices are getting louder. "Sai Baba was my God — who dares to refuse God? He was free to do whatever he wanted to do with me; he had my trust, my faith, my love and my friendship; he had me in totality," says Iranian-American former follower Said Khorramshahgol. What Sai Baba chose to do with him, Khorramshahgol says, was to repeatedly call him into private interviews and order him to drop his pants and massage his penis. Other former devotees contend Sai Baba did even more. No matter — in this part of the world, faith is absolute. Believers don’t refuse God, and they don’t question him. On Puttaparthi’s outskirts, a Hindu temple has a statue of Sai Baba among its pantheon of deities, standing right next to Krishna. In the town, every conceivable surface is adorned with pictures of Sai Baba wearing an orange robe and a benign smile. There’s a photo of him garlanded with fake pink flowers in my hotel room and a giant portrait behind the reception desk. Each afternoon, a speaker across from my bed pipes in music praising the guru. When I buy a pen to take notes, it has Sai Baba’s smiling face on it. Days at the ashram revolve around an event known as "darshan," when Sai Baba walks through an open-air, pastel-colored hall (called a mandir) and shows his precious self to the assembled multitudes. It takes place once in the morning and once in the afternoon, and people line up for hours beforehand. Everyone is desperate to get in first, because sitting near the front means that Sai Baba might say a few words to you, accept a letter or even invite you into his special chamber for a private interview. Private interviews are the raison d’

RSVP – a little long

Question:

Where in CT are you? I’m in Manchester. Ann

Currently in Waterbury and saving money so I can get out of Waterbury — Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves) dragonandthistle at snet dot net

Response:

Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss. (snippety)

Welcome to the group!  I am Krista in Georgia, USA, currently owned by office kitties Ozzy and Tiger and home kitties Tallulah and Hubert.  I look forward to reading more about your furry gang. —— Krista

Response:

Hello Mike.  We’re Rich and Cathi, and we live in a little town called Whitstable on the North coast of Kent in South East England. Furry owners are thus: Jasper – a 7 year old black DSH male, stupendously handsome (or so I’ve been instructed to write). Recently diagnosed with diabetes, but we’ve just about got his regime sorted and he’s doing well.  Vet very pleased with him at last check-up. Carrie – a black and white DSH female of indeterminate age (but we think she’s about 8). The entente between them is more tolerant than cordial, but they’ve managed to rub along together for five years now! — Cathi

Response:

Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

I wouldn’t say a harsh word about any other group, but we try to be friendly and supportive bunch.  It’s easy to see from your cat descriptions that you love the little creatures, so welcome! Regards and Purrs, O J

Response:

Welcome, Mike (and neighbor to the South!).  Hope you’ll stick around and post some stories about your furry ones.  Sit back, put up your feet, have a nice beverage of your choice, and enjoy! Ginger-lyn

Uh, about the beverage of your choice — if you value your keyboard and see a post with a BW in the subject line, be sure to swallow and put your cup or whatever down before opening it up and reading. Welcome to the group. Annie

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Welcome!!!!!

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Welcome Mike!  Your owners have great names I live in Connecticut with my husband Joe; Gossamer, our 9 yo spoiled princess and Jeeves, our 8 yo (not so)tough guy.  Pictures can be seen at http://tinyurl.com/65bxm — Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves) dragonandthistle at snet dot net

Response:

Howdy, and a hearty welcome from Buffalo, New York, the City of Good Neighbors. I’m Liz Bahadur Kaur, but everyone just calls me Baha. My hubby Louie and I are parents to two juvenile delinquents, one little lady, and one princess with attitude who right now is very mad at Mom And Dad for blowing her cover while she was on a Scare Mama mission. My Juvies are Stosh (Stanislaus Tejbir), a big black-and-white tuxie; and Brandy Alexandra, who wears a tortoiseshell tuxedo. These two are my mischief makers, and the most rambunctious of the four kids. Our little lady is Roxie (Ryoko Sakura), another black-and-white tuxie, whose principal pursuits are meditation and attaining enlightenment. She spends much of her time meditating, actually sitting with her front paws in something resembling the lotus position. Her attitude is demure and ladylike and she reminds us very much of a nun. We figure she was a Buddhist in a past life. Odessa Tatyana is our newest addition, being with us only a week, and already she has turned this house upside down. She went missing yesterday, causing us much worry; and upon being found, has been throwing princess-fits worthy of being written up in a tabloid. She’s all but wrecked the computer room, and has a great talent for foul language. Beneath all this, however, is a little girl who wants to know she can be loved, because she’s been through a lot. All four are our children, our little individual, unique souls, and gifts to us from our divine creator. They’re all an adventure, and I love them all like crazy. Welcome, friend, and enjoy your stay with us. Come frequently, and be prepared for some good stories and good people. Blessed be, Baha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss. Turvy (Bombullerina) is the matron of the clan, she is the oldest at 10 years.  She rules the household with an iron will and sharp claws.  She is half of the duo of Topsy and Turvy, but Topsy was adopted by someone else before I found them. Mischief (Mistoffolees) is the muscle of the bunch.  An ex-stray, street smart and 13 pounds of smak-talking thug kitty. Etcetera (Baby) was found by my mom on her farm in an old shed, along with her 2 brothers.  The best we can tell is a coyote must have gotten their mom, as she never ever turned up.  So after feeding them for a few days, she bundled them all up and took them to her house.  Now Etcetera lives here, brother Loki with my mom, and brother Thor with my sister. Rumpleteaser (Blondie) showed up at a co-worker farm one day late last year, so hungry that she was trying to gnaw pieces from a feed block made for cattle.  After some bottled water and a can of tuna she was ready to move in.  So, he called me, we made a quick trip to the vet, and she’s been here ever since. Skimbleshanks (Hobo) is the newest addition.  Just a couple months ago, several of our factory managment team were outside the plant talking, and a little, almost handful of kitten hopped down from the wheel carriage of a railroad car and trotted over to them.  He ate all the turkey off our production planners lunch sandwich, and as I was walking out the door to go home, he caught a ride. Well, thats the gang.  I have hundreds of pictures of them, but none stored online yet.  I plan to upload some of them to yahoo photos, and when I do I’ll post some links.  Don’t know how frequently I’ll be posting, but just wanted you to know that we’re here. Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

Response:

More inserted. — Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus      www.lds.org      www.mormons.com

Howdy, and a hearty welcome from Buffalo, New York, the City of Good Neighbors. I’m Liz Bahadur Kaur, but everyone just calls me Baha. CY: Greetings from the far East, Baha! My hubby Louie and I are parents to two juvenile delinquents, one little lady, and one princess with attitude who right now is very mad at Mom And Dad for blowing her cover while she was on a Scare Mama mission. CY: will she ever recover? My Juvies are Stosh (Stanislaus Tejbir), a big black-and-white tuxie; CY: And a real nipper, too. and Brandy Alexandra, who wears a tortoiseshell tuxedo. These two are my mischief makers, and the most rambunctious of the four kids. CY: I remeber Brandy being a bit more polite. Our little lady is Roxie (Ryoko Sakura), another black-and-white tuxie, whose principal pursuits are meditation and attaining enlightenment. She spends much of her time meditating, actually sitting with her front paws in something resembling the lotus position. Her attitude is demure and ladylike and she reminds us very much of a nun. We figure she was a Buddhist in a past life. CY: Perhaps. Either that, or a nun? Perhaps  victorian boarding school graduate? Who doesn’t mind a belly rub from Unka Stormin? Odessa Tatyana is our newest addition, being with us only a week, and already she has turned this house upside down. She went missing yesterday, causing us much worry; and upon being found, has been throwing princess-fits worthy of being written up in a tabloid. CY: We gotta get Jeff to get her a web page. Perhaps that would help satiate Her Majesty? She’s all but wrecked the computer room, and has a great talent for foul language. Beneath all this, however, is a little girl who wants to know she can be loved, because she’s been through a lot. CY: And you can see right through her tantrums. Which makes you cat’s best friend. All four are our children, our little individual, unique souls, and gifts to us from our divine creator. They’re all an adventure, and I love them all like crazy. CY: Got to meet the new one, some time. Welcome, friend, and enjoy your stay with us. Come frequently, and be prepared for some good stories and good people. CY: Yes, and I do feel welcome here. Blessed be, Baha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

Response:

Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

CY: Meow. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss.

CY: Of course, they are. Turvy (Bombullerina) is the matron of the clan, she is the oldest at 10 years.  She rules the household with an iron will and sharp claws.  She is half of the duo of Topsy and Turvy, but Topsy was adopted by someone else before I found them.

CY: Tragic. Does she cry in her sleep? Mischief (Mistoffolees) is the muscle of the bunch.  An ex-stray, street smart and 13 pounds of smak-talking thug kitty.

CY: Und iff you to not like it, you know, you go talk to the paw? Etcetera (Baby) was found by my mom on her farm in an old shed, along with her 2 brothers.  The best we can tell is a coyote must have gotten their mom, as she never ever turned up.  So after feeding them for a few days, she bundled them all up and took them to her house.  Now Etcetera lives here, brother Loki with my mom, and brother Thor with my sister.

CY: Great family. Rumpleteaser (Blondie) showed up at a co-worker farm one day late last year, so hungry that she was trying to gnaw pieces from a feed block made for cattle.  After some bottled water and a can of tuna she was ready to move in.  So, he called me, we made a quick trip to the vet, and she’s been here ever since.

CY: Yep, they found you! Skimbleshanks (Hobo) is the newest addition.  Just a couple months ago, several of our factory managment team were outside the plant talking, and a little, almost handful of kitten hopped down from the wheel carriage of a railroad car and trotted over to them.  He ate all the turkey off our production planners lunch sandwich, and as I was walking out the door to go home, he caught a ride.

CY: Wow, there’s another one? Well, thats the gang.  I have hundreds of pictures of them, but none stored online yet.  I plan to upload some of them to yahoo photos, and when I do I’ll post some links.

CY: Yes, good idea. Don’t know how frequently I’ll be posting, but just wanted you to know that we’re here. Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

CY: And the frequent poster gets the purrs.

Response:

Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

Hi Skippy, I’m Yowie (my Meat-life name is Vicky) and I share my life with Joel (husband), Cary (6 month old son), Shmoggleberry (cranky 15 year old grey b*st*rd c*t) and Fluffy (mutt with not a brain cell to spare). We’re near Sydney, NSW, Australia. I used to write lots of cat anecdotes, but with Cary coming along and the load getting heavier at work, I don’t get alot of time anymore. The FAQ, which sorely needs updating, its at http://www.angelfire.com/mt/yowie/catfaq.htm Welcome! Yowie

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Welcoming purrs on the way to Mike and his masters. As you can see from my sig, I’m Steve, owned by Little Bit, her daughter Sammy, and Rocky. Little Bit showed up a few years ago, very pregnant and cold during an ice storm. Despite being told I didn’t want or need any cats (my cockatiels didn’t approve, either) she moved right in. Before I could find any sign of her previous home (she had a flea collar, so at some time someone must have cared for her, but she was awfully skinny and had no business outside in freezing weather) she had her babies in the bedroom closet. As so often happens, by the time the kittens were old enough to be homed she had wormed her way into my heart. I ended up keeping her and Sammy, one of her daughters. I’ve actually known Rocky longer, but he wasn’t a member of the family. He was a neighborhood feral cat, who I fed for several years. Last year the possibility of moving came up. By that time he was letting me pet him a little, so I decided I’d better find him a home. Well, I found him a home as a barn cat, but when the move didn’t happen neither did finding him going to the new home – he ended up joining the family here. BTW, we all live in Lawton, which is in SW Oklahoma. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and Rocky Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

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Welcome Mike! Sounds like you are a perfect match for this group. I look forward to reading about your gang. My name is Victor and I live with my partner Tom in Austin, Texas with our seven cats: Xoxo – elder of the clan and sleep master extraordinaire Luna and Maya – the two girls, have played mom for the 4 younger boys Basho and Issa – "the boys", sweetest cats you’ll ever meet, they love everybody Fez and Rufous – "the little ones", teen-age hooli-kittens who like to get into everything — Victor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

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Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

Hi, Mike, and welcome to the group. I love your cats’ names. My name is Marina and I live with my two black-and-white moggies Frank (almost 17) and Nikki (16) in Helsinki, Finland. There are lots of pictures of them on the webpages in my sig. Can’t wait for pictures of yours! — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

   Hi – welcome to the Group!!  You have a great fur-family there – I love the imaginative names you’ve given them.  Would love to see their pics when you get them up.  We currently have only two kitties – Hobo and Speckles, plain names but appropos (is Hobo your cat’s name or a nickname?).   And my daughter had a Rumpleteaser a few years ago. Flippy is a great lady and I’m glad she sent you our way!!  Hope you enjoy the Group – I know we’ll enjoy your stories!    Jeanne Jeanne Hajos spamguard:( u is i, and not is net) === "Anger improves nothing except the arch of a cat’s back."                                           — Coleman Cox My SETI team: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_125874.html

Response:

Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am.

Welcome, Mike! This is a great group, and Flippy is a wonderful cat person. I’m Dan, live in southern CA with my wife and four kitties. They are: Cleopatra (silver DLH) – at 10 years old, the oldest of the bunch. Like your Turvy, she pretty well rules the house. Amelia (tortie DSH) – 4 years old, rather overweight, and has decided that I am *her* human. Loves to ride on my shoulders, especially when I’m just stepping out of the shower. Tabitha (black Persian) – 1 1/2 years old, and the smallest of the bunch. Has adopted Amelia as he stepmom, and Amelia has adopted Tabitha. The two of them wash each other all the time. Tabitha is Amelia’s competitor for shoulder-riding time. Samuel (orange DSH) – about a month younger than Tabitha. Sammy was dumped beside the parking lot of a grocery warehouse where I used to work. I trapped him, took him to the vet, and took him home. He’s now well settled, and cimbes on my chest at bedtime every night that I’m at home. Unfortunately I don’t get to spend a lot of time at home with my wife and the kitties – I’m a truck driver, and spend a lot of time on the road. But spending time in this newsgroup with a bunch of fellow cat lovers makes the time away from own furkids more bearable. Dan currently posting from Sparks, NV

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss. Turvy (Bombullerina) is the matron of the clan, she is the oldest at 10 years.  She rules the household with an iron will and sharp claws.  She is half of the duo of Topsy and Turvy, but Topsy was adopted by someone else before I found them. Mischief (Mistoffolees) is the muscle of the bunch.  An ex-stray, street smart and 13 pounds of smak-talking thug kitty. Etcetera (Baby) was found by my mom on her farm in an old shed, along with her 2 brothers.  The best we can tell is a coyote must have gotten their mom, as she never ever turned up.  So after feeding them for a few days, she bundled them all up and took them to her house.  Now Etcetera lives here, brother Loki with my mom, and brother Thor with my sister. Rumpleteaser (Blondie) showed up at a co-worker farm one day late last year, so hungry that she was trying to gnaw pieces from a feed block made for cattle.  After some bottled water and a can of tuna she was ready to move in.  So, he called me, we made a quick trip to the vet, and she’s been here ever since. Skimbleshanks (Hobo) is the newest addition.  Just a couple months ago, several of our factory managment team were outside the plant talking, and a little, almost handful of kitten hopped down from the wheel carriage of a railroad car and trotted over to them.  He ate all the turkey off our production planners lunch sandwich, and as I was walking out the door to go home, he caught a ride. Well, thats the gang.  I have hundreds of pictures of them, but none stored online yet.  I plan to upload some of them to yahoo photos, and when I do I’ll post some links.  Don’t know how frequently I’ll be posting, but just wanted you to know that we’re here. Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

Welcome, Mike (and neighbor to the South!).  Hope you’ll stick around and post some stories about your furry ones.  Sit back, put up your feet, have a nice beverage of your choice, and enjoy! Ginger-lyn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss. Turvy (Bombullerina) is the matron of the clan, she is the oldest at 10 years.  She rules the household with an iron will and sharp claws.  She is half of the duo of Topsy and Turvy, but Topsy was adopted by someone else before I found them. Mischief (Mistoffolees) is the muscle of the bunch.  An ex-stray, street smart and 13 pounds of smak-talking thug kitty. Etcetera (Baby) was found by my mom on her farm in an old shed, along with her 2 brothers.  The best we can tell is a coyote must have gotten their mom, as she never ever turned up.  So after feeding them for a few days, she bundled them all up and took them to her house.  Now Etcetera lives here, brother Loki with my mom, and brother Thor with my sister. Rumpleteaser (Blondie) showed up at a co-worker farm one day late last year, so hungry that she was trying to gnaw pieces from a feed block made for cattle.  After some bottled water and a can of tuna she was ready to move in.  So, he called me, we made a quick trip to the vet, and she’s been here ever since. Skimbleshanks (Hobo) is the newest addition.  Just a couple months ago, several of our factory managment team were outside the plant talking, and a little, almost handful of kitten hopped down from the wheel carriage of a railroad car and trotted over to them.  He ate all the turkey off our production planners lunch sandwich, and as I was walking out the door to go home, he caught a ride. Well, thats the gang.  I have hundreds of pictures of them, but none stored online yet.  I plan to upload some of them to yahoo photos, and when I do I’ll post some links.  Don’t know how frequently I’ll be posting, but just wanted you to know that we’re here. Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

Welcome Mike!  Sounds like a fine group of owners you have there. Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

Hi Mike and welcome to the group! I’m Christine in Vantaa (just north of Helsinki), Finland, living with my hubby Janne and solid black 4-year-old kitty-boy Laku. Pics of mostly Laku available in my Yahoo Photos account, addy’s in the sig. — Christine in Vantaa, Finland christal63 (at) yahoo (dot) com photos: http://photos.yahoo.com/christal63

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Hi – welcome to the Group!!  You have a great fur-family there – I love the imaginative names you’ve given them.  Would love to see their pics when you get them up.  We currently have only two kitties – Hobo and Speckles, plain names but appropos (is Hobo your cat’s name or a nickname?).   And my daughter had a Rumpleteaser a few years ago. Flippy is a great lady and I’m glad she sent you our way!!  Hope you enjoy the Group – I know we’ll enjoy your stories!   Jeanne Jeanne Hajos spamguard:( u is i, and not is net) === "Anger improves nothing except the arch of a cat’s back."                                          — Coleman Cox My SETI team: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_125874.html

Well, the cats names are a play on the book "Old Possums book of practical cats".  According to the the chapter on the naming of cats, they have to have 3 names.  The sensible, everyday name, Hobo, because he hopped of the train at the factory, and the distinguished, prideful name, Skimbleshanks, who in the musical "Cats", was the cat on the railway train.  And the 3rd name, only the cat knows, and he will never ever tell you, it is only for him to sit and contemplate  :) Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

Response:

Hi Mike, welcome to rpca. Ann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss. Turvy (Bombullerina) is the matron of the clan, she is the oldest at 10 years.  She rules the household with an iron will and sharp claws.  She is half of the duo of Topsy and Turvy, but Topsy was adopted by someone else before I found them. Mischief (Mistoffolees) is the muscle of the bunch.  An ex-stray, street smart and 13 pounds of smak-talking thug kitty. Etcetera (Baby) was found by my mom on her farm in an old shed, along with her 2 brothers.  The best we can tell is a coyote must have gotten their mom, as she never ever turned up.  So after feeding them for a few days, she bundled them all up and took them to her house.  Now Etcetera lives here, brother Loki with my mom, and brother Thor with my sister. Rumpleteaser (Blondie) showed up at a co-worker farm one day late last year, so hungry that she was trying to gnaw pieces from a feed block made for cattle.  After some bottled water and a can of tuna she was ready to move in.  So, he called me, we made a quick trip to the vet, and she’s been here ever since. Skimbleshanks (Hobo) is the newest addition.  Just a couple months ago, several of our factory managment team were outside the plant talking, and a little, almost handful of kitten hopped down from the wheel carriage of a railroad car and trotted over to them.  He ate all the turkey off our production planners lunch sandwich, and as I was walking out the door to go home, he caught a ride. Well, thats the gang.  I have hundreds of pictures of them, but none stored online yet.  I plan to upload some of them to yahoo photos, and when I do I’ll post some links.  Don’t know how frequently I’ll be posting, but just wanted you to know that we’re here. Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

Response:

Hello everyone;  my name is Mike.  Flippy found me hanging out in another cat group and invited me to stop in here, so; here I am. I live in Kentucky, in the USA, and although I hold the mortgage and am the bringer of feasts, there is a cadre of cats that live here that won’t let me forget who’s boss. Turvy (Bombullerina) is the matron of the clan, she is the oldest at 10 years.  She rules the household with an iron will and sharp claws.  She is half of the duo of Topsy and Turvy, but Topsy was adopted by someone else before I found them. Mischief (Mistoffolees) is the muscle of the bunch.  An ex-stray, street smart and 13 pounds of smak-talking thug kitty. Etcetera (Baby) was found by my mom on her farm in an old shed, along with her 2 brothers.  The best we can tell is a coyote must have gotten their mom, as she never ever turned up.  So after feeding them for a few days, she bundled them all up and took them to her house.  Now Etcetera lives here, brother Loki with my mom, and brother Thor with my sister. Rumpleteaser (Blondie) showed up at a co-worker farm one day late last year, so hungry that she was trying to gnaw pieces from a feed block made for cattle.  After some bottled water and a can of tuna she was ready to move in.  So, he called me, we made a quick trip to the vet, and she’s been here ever since. Skimbleshanks (Hobo) is the newest addition.  Just a couple months ago, several of our factory managment team were outside the plant talking, and a little, almost handful of kitten hopped down from the wheel carriage of a railroad car and trotted over to them.  He ate all the turkey off our production planners lunch sandwich, and as I was walking out the door to go home, he caught a ride. Well, thats the gang.  I have hundreds of pictures of them, but none stored online yet.  I plan to upload some of them to yahoo photos, and when I do I’ll post some links.  Don’t know how frequently I’ll be posting, but just wanted you to know that we’re here. Mike The early bird gets the worm; the 2nd mouse gets the cheese!!

Response:

Uh, about the beverage of your choice — if you value your keyboard and see a post with a BW in the subject line, be sure to swallow and put your cup or whatever down before opening it up and reading. Welcome to the group. Annie

Yeah, someone shoule explain about the Daves! Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

Yeah, someone shoule explain about the Daves!

   Right!  BTW, except for a recent post from Dave Stevenson, haven’t heard from them.  Where are the other Daves???    Jeanne

Response:

Where in CT are you? I’m in Manchester. Ann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome Mike!  Your owners have great names I live in Connecticut with my husband Joe; Gossamer, our 9 yo spoiled princess and Jeeves, our 8 yo (not so)tough guy.  Pictures can be seen at http://tinyurl.com/65bxm — Elise (supervised by Gossamer & Jeeves) dragonandthistle at snet dot net

Response:

RELIABILITY OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY

Question:

"Immortalist" <Reanimater_2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:986dnR7lFoEtGOXcRVn-hg@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message > news:6cydnYLxq44n1eXcRVn-vw@edaptivity.com… > > I didn’t see google in the list smokee. I guess that constitutes proof that > > you have no knowledge. Tu ligh ispin deatache. > > Now don’t cry and don’t throw a hissy fit but you equivocate composition and > > plagiarism. Ergo tu ligh ispin deatcache. Smoke me a kipper skipper and I’ll > > be back later to berate you. > What are you babbling about Canadian wanker? In newsgroups we discuss things and > test contraversial arguments. You should go to a search engine and try to learn > about how these places work. In the meantime I will use this wasted space for > more back supports to the topic (thing in the subject line above);

Why do you always start flag waving smokee? This has nothing to do with Canadian freedom versus US decay. I know you’re jealous, but don’t wrap yourself in your flag – some terrorist might set you on fire! You really do ligh ispin deatache.

Response:

Canadians don’t wank. They enjoy trappers’ delights. A hole in a log with moss growing around it. Snidely Whiplash told me about them. He had one in Moosejaw, he called Little Nell. Her name was written in yellow snow. He was artistic that way. "Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message

news:Ke-dnQE1LY2TWOXcRVn-sQ@edaptivity.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Immortalist" <Reanimater_2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:986dnR7lFoEtGOXcRVn-hg@comcast.com… >> "Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message >> news:6cydnYLxq44n1eXcRVn-vw@edaptivity.com… >> > I didn’t see google in the list smokee. I guess that constitutes proof > that >> > you have no knowledge. Tu ligh ispin deatache. >> > Now don’t cry and don’t throw a hissy fit but you equivocate >> > composition > and >> > plagiarism. Ergo tu ligh ispin deatcache. Smoke me a kipper skipper and > I’ll >> > be back later to berate you. >> What are you babbling about Canadian wanker? In newsgroups we discuss > things and >> test contraversial arguments. You should go to a search engine and try to > learn >> about how these places work. In the meantime I will use this wasted space > for >> more back supports to the topic (thing in the subject line above); > Why do you always start flag waving smokee? This has nothing to do with > Canadian freedom versus US decay. I know you’re jealous, but don’t wrap > yourself in your flag – some terrorist might set you on fire! > You really do ligh ispin deatache.

Response:

"Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message

news:6cydnYLxq44n1eXcRVn-vw@edaptivity.com… > I didn’t see google in the list smokee. I guess that constitutes proof that > you have no knowledge. Tu ligh ispin deatache. > Now don’t cry and don’t throw a hissy fit but you equivocate composition and > plagiarism. Ergo tu ligh ispin deatcache. Smoke me a kipper skipper and I’ll > be back later to berate you.

What are you babbling about Canadian wanker? In newsgroups we discuss things and test contraversial arguments. You should go to a search engine and try to learn about how these places work. In the meantime I will use this wasted space for more back supports to the topic (thing in the subject line above); An archival study of eyewitness memory of the Titanic’s final plunge Todd C. Riniolo EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OFTEN CONTAIN INACCURACIES (Buckhout, 1974; Wells et al., 2000). However, inaccuracies occur primarily when eyewitnesses recall peripheral details (i.e., the specific details of an event). In contrast, the results of both laboratory and real-life research have demonstrated that central details (i.e., the gist of what happened) are typically remembered with greater accuracy (Christianson, 1992; Wessel & Merckelbach, 1997). Furthermore, the results of a limited number of real-life studies have demonstrated that central-detail recall of traumatic events is also accurate. For example, most individuals who witnessed (a) a shooting as a bystander (Yuille & Cutshall, 1986), (b) a bank robbery as a bystander or a victim (Christianson & Hubinette, 1993), or (c) various types of violent crime (homicide, rape, robbery) as a victim (Kuehn, 1974), accurately recalled the central details of their experiences (typically with accuracy greater than 70% across various central details). In addition, Wessel and Merckelbach (1997) tested the memory of spider phobics after the participants were presented with a large spider (i.e., traumatic conditions). The results indicated that central-detail recall was consistent with a control group. Research results have also indicated that children accurately recall central details from traumatic events (see Pezdek & Taylor, 2001, for a review). In addition, concentration camp survivors have demonstrated that although some central memories deteriorate with time, others can be accurately recalled for decades afterward (Wagenaar & Groeneweg, 1990). It is interesting to note that, despite the available evidence that indicates that memory recall of traumatic events is similar to recall for distinctive nontraumatic events (Pezdek & Taylor), a recent survey of prolific eyewitness researchers (i.e., experts) indicated that at least 65% favored the statement "Very high levels of stress impair the accuracy of eyewitness testimony" (Kassin, Tubb, Hosch, & Memon, 20 01, p. 408). However, because memory studies that involve eyewitnesses to real-life traumatic events are limited in number (Tromp, Koss, Figueredo, & Tharan, 1995), more research is needed to replicate previous findings and to increase generalizability. The final plunge of the luxury passenger liner, the Titanic, is a unique real-life single-occurrence traumatic event that produced eyewitness testimony but that has received no attention in the eyewitness literature. More than 1,500 people died when the ship sank on a cold, clear, moonless, starlit night at approximately 2:20 a.m. on April 15, 1912 (Riniolo, Torrez, & Schmidt, 2001). During the final plunge, the eyewitnesses were scattered in 1 of 20 lifeboats or they were in the waters surrounding the sinking vessel. The perceptual conditions were not favorable because visibility was limited and because not all of the survivors were close enough to the ship to view the final plunge. The accuracy of eyewitness accounts of how the Titanic sank (whether it was intact or brea king apart as it sank) was the focus of the present study. There are two reasons it is possible to investigate eyewitness testimony from Titanic survivors about how the ship sank. First, there is substantial archival data available from the 1912 United States Senate hearings and from the hearings the same year of the British Board of Trade to allow for an empirical investigation. A sufficient number of eyewitnesses testified about the state of the Titanic during the final plunge so that both investigations were able to make final determinations (both concluded that the Titanic sank intact). Second, there is now forensic evidence that can enable researchers to evaluate the accuracy of the testimony about the state of the ship before it sank. In contrast to the original determinations, the forensic evidence indicates with "no doubt" (Garzke, Brown, Sandiford, Woodward, & Hsu, 1996, p.250) that the main hull of the Titanic was breaking apart while the ship was still on the surface of the water. It is interesting to note that the previous literature predicts that most of the eyewitness testimony should have accurately recalled the central details of the Titanic’s final plunge. However, both the Senate and the Board of Trade investigators found results that were in direct contrast with current forensic evidence. Perhaps the present study would provide evidence from a real-life traumatic event that is in conflict with the limited previous literature. If so, the present study would support the position of many experts that very high levels of stress (i.e., witnessing an event with massive loss of life) impair memory (Kassin et al., 2001). Also, because most eyewitness literature is laboratory based (Wells et al., 2000), additional real-life studies are necessary to provide convergent evidence. In summary, our purpose in the present article was to investigate empirically the accuracy of archival eyewitness accounts of the Titanic’s final plunge. The results of the study should add a unique contribution t o the eyewitness literature (because of the large-scale loss of life). Method Participants A combined total of 91 Titanic survivors testified at the American and British hearings (some testified at both) and responded to a wide range of questions (e.g., actions of Captain Smith, light seen from the Titanic, loading of the lifeboats). Although the state of the ship during its final plunge was of interest, it was not the major focus of either investigation. In addition, the hearings were unstructured, which meant that the eyewitnesses were asked different questions. Thus, we limited the participants in the present study to those cases (n = 20, 2 women) that directly commented on viewing the condition (i.e., intact or breaking apart) of the ship. Seventy-one eyewitnesses were either not asked to provide testimony about the state of the ship during the final plunge (n = 68) or could not comment because of limited visibility (n = 3). To rely on a subsample of the total eyewitness population is a methodological limitation that has occurred in other real-life studies (e.g., Christianson & Hubinette, 1993; Wagenaar & Groeneweg, 1990; Yuille & Cutshall, 1986). We comment further on this issue in the discussion section. Procedures We independently reviewed the testimony of survivors who testified at the U.S. hearings (April 19-May 25, 1912) and at the British (May 2-July 3, 1912) hearings. We obtained the transcripts of the hearings from the Internet (http://www.titanicinquiry.org/). We independently identified and evaluated testimony that commented directly on viewing the state of the ship (i.e., intact or breaking apart) during the final plunge (n = 20). Because the testimony from the hearings has been described by historians as sometimes ambiguous and contradictory, we decided a priori that we would limit the analysis to those cases on which we agreed unanimously. The testimony about the state of the ship during the final plunge was straightforward, and we identified and classified the testimony with 100% agreement. Results Of the 20 identified eyewitnesses, 15 (75%) indicated that the Titanic was breaking apart during the final plunge (see Table 1). A chi-square goodness-of-fit demonstrated that the results were statistically significant, [chi square](1, N = 20) = 5, p < .05. Furthermore, we used the percentile method (Mooney & Duval, 1993) to perform bootstrapping (100,000 resamples), which created a 95% confidence interval (CI) of the percentage of correct eyewitness testimony (CI = 55%, 90%). Also, as shown in Table 1, 13 of the 20 lifeboats were represented. Discussion The purpose of this research was to evaluate the accuracy of archival eyewitness testimony from Titanic survivors. Specifically, we wanted to investigate how the eyewitnesses recalled the ship’s state during its final plunge. Most of the eyewitnesses’ testimony (15 eyewitnesses out of 20) is consistent with current forensic evidence that the Titanic was breaking apart as it sank, even though the survivors witnessed a traumatic event (there were more than 1,500 deaths) and even though the perceptual conditions in which the memories were formed were not ideal (i.e., limited visibility). The results of the present study are consistent with the previous literature that demonstrates that central details are often recalled accurately when they are formed during traumatic conditions (e.g., Christianson & Hubinette, 1993; Yuille & Cutshall, 1986), and they indicate that memory of traumatic events is "in many ways similar to memory for more normal nontraumatic events" (Pezdek & Taylor, 2001, pp. 177-178). However, it should be noted that this study (a) was limited to the evaluation of the accuracy of recalling a single central detail and (b) does not provide any evidence about the eyewitness accuracy of peripheral details (i.e., the specific details). It is interesting that, until the wreck of the Titanic was discovered in 1985 and it was shown that the bow had settled on the ocean floor about 1,970 ft from the stern (Ballard, 1987), historians had believed … read more »

Response:

"Immortalist" <Reanimater_2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:K6Odnf3Ya_uegeXcRVn-hQ@comcast.com… > "Patrioaf" <li…@wales.sheep> wrote in message > news:jbidnd_ui4MNYurcRVn-uA@comcast.com… > > Thanks for telling us what Mr. Google had to say.

<snipped google bitches google job> That’s right smokee just the links. > http://www.??.com/

I didn’t see google in the list smokee. I guess that constitutes proof that you have no knowledge. Tu ligh ispin deatache. Now don’t cry and don’t throw a hissy fit but you equivocate composition and plagiarism. Ergo tu ligh ispin deatcache. Smoke me a kipper skipper and I’ll be back later to berate you.

Response:

"Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message

news:28edncujXpNJKercRVn-gw@edaptivity.com… Suppose you take S to be a competent inquirer, and you take S to have engaged in competent inquiry concerning p. Suppose as well that these attitudes by you are rational ones. The, if S sincerely tells you that p is true. Some take this to be evidence regarding p, but the most obvious and straightforward account takes it to be evidence for you that there is good evidence for p. That is, the immediate and direct effect of a sincere witness to p is metaevidence regarding p. After all, the point of taking S to be a competent inquirer who has engaged in competent inquiry is that whatever they tell you will be something they have evidence for. So when they tell you that p is true, you obtain evidence that they have evidence for p, which is to say that you get evidence that there is evidence for p. When such a sincere witness counts as testimony, then metaevidence for p is also evidence for p. That

RELIABILITY OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY

Question:

Canadians don’t wank. They enjoy trappers’ delights. A hole in a log with moss growing around it. Snidely Whiplash told me about them. He had one in Moosejaw, he called Little Nell. Her name was written in yellow snow. He was artistic that way. "Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message

news:Ke-dnQE1LY2TWOXcRVn-sQ@edaptivity.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Immortalist" <Reanimater_2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:986dnR7lFoEtGOXcRVn-hg@comcast.com… >> "Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message >> news:6cydnYLxq44n1eXcRVn-vw@edaptivity.com… >> > I didn’t see google in the list smokee. I guess that constitutes proof > that >> > you have no knowledge. Tu ligh ispin deatache. >> > Now don’t cry and don’t throw a hissy fit but you equivocate >> > composition > and >> > plagiarism. Ergo tu ligh ispin deatcache. Smoke me a kipper skipper and > I’ll >> > be back later to berate you. >> What are you babbling about Canadian wanker? In newsgroups we discuss > things and >> test contraversial arguments. You should go to a search engine and try to > learn >> about how these places work. In the meantime I will use this wasted space > for >> more back supports to the topic (thing in the subject line above); > Why do you always start flag waving smokee? This has nothing to do with > Canadian freedom versus US decay. I know you’re jealous, but don’t wrap > yourself in your flag – some terrorist might set you on fire! > You really do ligh ispin deatache.

Response:

"Immortalist" <Reanimater_2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:986dnR7lFoEtGOXcRVn-hg@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message > news:6cydnYLxq44n1eXcRVn-vw@edaptivity.com… > > I didn’t see google in the list smokee. I guess that constitutes proof that > > you have no knowledge. Tu ligh ispin deatache. > > Now don’t cry and don’t throw a hissy fit but you equivocate composition and > > plagiarism. Ergo tu ligh ispin deatcache. Smoke me a kipper skipper and I’ll > > be back later to berate you. > What are you babbling about Canadian wanker? In newsgroups we discuss things and > test contraversial arguments. You should go to a search engine and try to learn > about how these places work. In the meantime I will use this wasted space for > more back supports to the topic (thing in the subject line above);

Why do you always start flag waving smokee? This has nothing to do with Canadian freedom versus US decay. I know you’re jealous, but don’t wrap yourself in your flag – some terrorist might set you on fire! You really do ligh ispin deatache.

Response:

"Tim" <a…@abc.abc> wrote in message

news:28edncujXpNJKercRVn-gw@edaptivity.com… Suppose you take S to be a competent inquirer, and you take S to have engaged in competent inquiry concerning p. Suppose as well that these attitudes by you are rational ones. The, if S sincerely tells you that p is true. Some take this to be evidence regarding p, but the most obvious and straightforward account takes it to be evidence for you that there is good evidence for p. That is, the immediate and direct effect of a sincere witness to p is metaevidence regarding p. After all, the point of taking S to be a competent inquirer who has engaged in competent inquiry is that whatever they tell you will be something they have evidence for. So when they tell you that p is true, you obtain evidence that they have evidence for p, which is to say that you get evidence that there is evidence for p. When such a sincere witness counts as testimony, then metaevidence for p is also evidence for p. That

I need yoga book recommendation

Question:

I have very stressed work and life, and I don’t have time for yoga classes.

The activity of making time for yoga classes will in itself be stress reducing.  Many studios offer weekend introductory classes.  I would start there before going to a book. When are you going to find the time to learn what’s in a book? Can someone give me recommendation for good yoga book where I can read about breathing and other technic for stress management. Thanks.

You may be best off listening to guided meditation tapes or CD’s.   There is a terrific site Wildmind.org run by a Buddhist teacher.  He has some guided meditation you can listen to in real audio off the computer for free.  He sells tapes, and teaches meditation through the internet as well. He explores several forms of meditation.  This is a good way to get a sense of what is out there. — ~Stu

Response:

I have very stressed work and life, and I don’t have time for yoga classes. Can someone give me recommendation for good yoga book where I can read about breathing and other technic for stress management. Thanks.

Response:

Only one life form on planet earth.

Question:

Howdy! How come you’ve zeroed your focus of the cosmos onto a tiny spec called "planet earth?" Dave

Climbing Lion Tour (Yangon – Bagan – Kanpetlet – Yangon)

Question:

Not this commercial crap again Pete Loud

Response:

Climbing Lion This tour, covering for Asian’s biggest archaeology site of Bagan and Myanmar’s third highest peak of Mt. Victoria, also introduce to Myanmar Bird, with a journey to the Chin Hills, a spectacular mountainous area of western Myanmar, Nat-ma-taung (Mt. Victoria) National Park that comprises 280 sq. miles and culture of tattoo people (Chin People). Climbing Lion LLA 03 10 Days 9 Nights by air and by coach Coverage: Yangon-Bagan-Kanpetlet-Yangon Day 1 Yangon Arrive at airport, welcome by our tour guide, transfer to hotel. Evening sightseeing around Yangon and enjoy the splendor of Shwedagon Pagoda by night. Dinner and overnight in Yangon. Day 2 Bagan After breakfast transfer to airport for flight to Bagan, one of Asia’s biggest archaeological sites, center of a great kingdom and a glorious civilization, which flourished between 11th-13th centuries, now noted for it’s over 2,000 pagodas. Arrive at Bagan airport, transfer to hotel. After lunch tour the magnificent ruins of Bagan, highlights are Ananda, an architectural masterpiece of the early-style temple, Ananda Okkyaung, and Bupaya. Evening short boat trip on the Ayeyarwaddy River to enjoy the sunset. Dinner and overnight in Bagan. Day 3 Bagan After breakfast full day sightseeing around Bagan. Shwezigon Pagoda, prototype of later Myanmar pagodas with glazed plaques on terraces, Dhammayangyi, Gupyaukgyi (Wetgyi-Inn) with mural paintings and Nyaung Oo market. Afternoon visit to Archaeological Museum, lacquer ware craftsmen’s workshop, Nan Paya, Manuha and from the upper terrace of Pyathatgyi Temple or Shwesandaw Pagoda to watch sunset over the Ayeyarwaddy River. Dinner and overnight in Bagan. Day 4 Kanpetlet After breakfast, begin a journey to the Chin Hills with a 4-wheel drive Jeep. Cross the Ayeyarwaddy River, have packed lunch on the way, and will arrive at Kanpetlet, a Chin town, situated at 4560 ft early in the evening. Dinner and overnight in Kanpetle. Day 5 Kanpetlet After breakfast drive up a road heading to Mt. Victoria to reach the 9000 ft elevation, a drive that takes about two hours. From there, walk up a track to the summit and back spending about another five hrs. Drive back to Kanpetlet. Dinner and overnight in Kanpetlet. Day 6 Kanpetlet After breakfast excursion to Nat Ma Taung National Park, which comprises 280sq. miles and is home to the endemic White – browed Nuthach and Black – bibbed Tit. Various types of habitats on the mountain such as mixed oak and rhododendrons, Montane bamboo patches, broad leaf evergreen forest, Pine forest, thick secondary growth with tall grass and scrub, Semicultivated fields and grass lands are rich in birds and a number of specialties like Brown – capped Laughing – thrush, Black – headed Shrike Babbler, Grey Sibia, Bulle – winged Laughing – thrush, Chestnut – crowned Laughing thrush, Striped Laughing thrush, Slender billed Scimitar Babbler, Spot – breasted Scimitar Babber, Brown Bush -Warbler Russet Bush Warbler, Broad – billed Warber , Spot – breasted Parrot bill Black – throated Parrot bill can be found . During the day in Mt. Victoria (Nat – ma – taung) National Park explore different elevations with different habitats. Explore this Chin village where many of the women still tattoo their faces. Dinner and overnight in Kanpetlet. Day 7 Kanpetlet After breakfast begin journey for return to Bagan. Evening arrive at Bagan. Dinner and overnight in Bagan. Day 8 Yangon After breakfast transfer to airport for return flight to Yangon. Evening at leisure. Dinner and Overnight in Yangon. Day 9 Yangon After breakfast sightseeing around in Yangon. Tour Highlight is Kaba Aye Pagoda. This pagoda is significant for the Sixth World Buddhist Synod in 1954. Buddha Museum and Maha Pasana Cave. Chauk-Htat-Kyee Pagoda. (70 meters long reclining Buddha). National Museum. This museum exhibits the Lion Throne of the Last Myanmar King. Bogyoke Aung San Park. A scenic park with a lovely view of Kandawgyi Lake is a popular recreation center where city-dwellers relax and enjoy Zoological Garden. The Zoo opened in 1906 is noted for its collection of wild animals, flora and fauna, which have been collected over the years. Meditation Centers. Enjoy sunset from the Botataung Pagoda. Dinner and Overnight in Yangon. Day 10 Yangon After breakfast, have morning sightseeing. Sule Pagoda located in the center of the downtown Yangon and shopping tour. After lunch transfer to Yangon International airport for departure flight. End. Lion Land Travels & Tours Co., Ltd. No.491, Merchant Street, Kyauktada Township, Yangon. Website: www.lionlandtravels.com , www.myanmartravelinformation.com/lionland Tel +95-1) 256790, 380291.

Response: