Peace, compassion and brotherhood
Question:
| Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet who gave the world a message of | peace and compassion. | | However, from early on, the message of Jesus was adulterated by the | Catholic Church who elevated Him to the status of God. | | Muslims may therefore be pleased to learn of following Christian | groups who have corrected this error. | | Evolutionary Christianity | http://www.evolutionarychristianity.org/ | | Christian Pantheists and Panentheists | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian_Pantheists_and_Panentheists/ | | | Peter The term Christian Pantheist makes as much sense as the phrase Muslim Christian. Alan Cossey
Response:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. Not the words of Jesus
Didn’t say they were. They are the words of John inspired by the Holy Spirit. In Christ’s own words: John 10:30 I and the Father are one." Comment: The Father (the Universe) and each one of us are inseparably one.
Your opinion I presume. But in spite of this unity, most of us don’t feel it. Jesus was different. He felt he and the Father were one.
And you personally know what Jesus felt? John 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." Comment: We are all in the Father (the Universe) and the Universe is in all of us. But again, in spite of this unity, most of us don’t feel it. Jesus was different and could do works to prove he was different.
You obviously don’t believe in Jesus or his words. What is your proof that we are all in the Father, contrary to what Jesus has said? You obviously do not believe in the Father. You obviously do not believe in God. God is the creator of the universe. How can the creator be what he created? If you believe in God, and in God’s word, God said he created man in His image. John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Comment: When a person speaks a truth of the Universe, he does not speak on his own authority, but on the authority of the Universe. The Universe is _in_ him and he is _in_ the Universe. The Universe is the Father that Jesus spoke of.
You are a very confused and disturbed individual. John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves. Comment: A true statement. Jesus is in the Father (the Universe) and the Universe is in Jesus. Jesus believed and knew and felt it. This gave him power to do his works.
Where did Jesus ever say that the Father was the universe? Where did God ever say that he was the universe? You apparently follow the teachings of man, and not God. Why do you lead people astray? There is only one objective truth. If people can find this truth, they can be united.
What you say is that man can redeem himself?
Response:
Comment by Peter: We are all in the Father (the Universe) and the Universe is in all of us. But again, in spite of this unity, most of us don’t feel it. Jesus was different and could do works to prove he was different. What is your proof that we are all in the Father, contrary to what Jesus has said?
Where did Jesus say we are not in the Father? God is the creator of the universe.
Where did Jesus say that? God said he created man in His image.
Where did Jesus say that? There is only one objective truth. If people can find this truth, they can be united. What you say is that man can redeem himself?
How can Christians redeem themselves in the eyes of Muslims and Jews for turning the prophet Jesus into a False God? If Christians wish to redeem themselves, surely they must first admit that Jesus was a prophet, rather than God. Then it may be possible for reconciliation and unity. Best wishes, Peter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comment by Peter: We are all in the Father (the Universe) and the Universe is in all of us. But again, in spite of this unity, most of us don’t feel it. Jesus was different and could do works to prove he was different. What is your proof that we are all in the Father, contrary to what Jesus has said? Where did Jesus say we are not in the Father?
Jesus said in John 14:6 "No one comes to the Father except through me." Unless you come to Christ, you cannot come to the Father. Where did Jesus say that we are in the Father? God is the creator of the universe. Where did Jesus say that?
You are so easily misled. I didn’t say that Jesus said that. God said he created man in His image. Where did Jesus say that?
I didn’t say that Jesus said that either. Don’t you comprehend what you read? No wonder you are so confused. Read Genesis 1:27. There is only one objective truth. If people can find this truth, they can be united. What you say is that man can redeem himself? How can Christians redeem themselves in the eyes of Muslims and Jews for turning the prophet Jesus into a False God?
Christians do not need to redeem themselves to Muslims or Jews. Jesus has redeemed Muslims and Jews, but they have rejected Him, as have you. You provide links to pantheism. You apparently are a pantheist. You have a belief in and worship all gods. It is you that worships false gods. If Christians wish to redeem themselves, surely they must first admit that Jesus was a prophet, rather than God.
To do so would be to deny God, and to worhsip false gods, as you do. Then it may be possible for reconciliation and unity.
Reconciliation and unity with what? Christ has already reconciled man with God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Jesus said in John 14:6 "No one comes to the Father except through me."
I take this is a metaphor for following the example of Jesus to the best of our ability. Unless you come to Christ, you cannot come to the Father. Where did Jesus say that we are in the Father?
If he is in the Father and we follow his example, we must be in the Father too. God is the creator of the universe. Where did Jesus say that? You are so easily misled. I didn’t say that Jesus said that.
So, Jesus never taught that God created the Universe. In this regard, Christian Pantheists follow Jesus perfectly. God said he created man in His image. Where did Jesus say that? I didn’t say that Jesus said that either. Don’t you comprehend what you read?
So, Jesus never taught that God created man in His image. In this regard too, Christian Pantheists follow Jesus perfectly. No wonder you are so confused. Read Genesis 1:27.
Genesis is pre-Christian myth. Surely Jesus knew better than to believe myth? Best wishes, Peter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jesus said in John 14:6 "No one comes to the Father except through me." I take this is a metaphor for following the example of Jesus to the best of our ability. Unless you come to Christ, you cannot come to the Father. Where did Jesus say that we are in the Father? If he is in the Father and we follow his example, we must be in the Father too.
You avoided the question. God is the creator of the universe. Where did Jesus say that? You are so easily misled. I didn’t say that Jesus said that. So, Jesus never taught that God created the Universe.
I didn’t say that either. In this regard, Christian Pantheists follow Jesus perfectly.
Unfortunately, you don’t. As a pantheist, you worship many gods. You break the 1st commandment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -God said he created man in His image. Where did Jesus say that? I didn’t say that Jesus said that either. Don’t you comprehend what you read? So, Jesus never taught that God created man in His image. In this regard too, Christian Pantheists follow Jesus perfectly. No wonder you are so confused. Read Genesis 1:27. Genesis is pre-Christian myth. Surely Jesus knew better than to believe myth?
If that is so, why then did Jesus refer to Moses and the prophets and the things they taught? Peter, your pantheism causes you great confusion.
Response:
As a pantheist, you worship many gods. You break the 1st commandment.
No. Pantheism is monotheistic. Pantheists define God as "The Totality of Being" which could also be called "Nature" or "The Universe" There is only one such entity. Surely Jesus knew better than to believe myth? If that is so, why then did Jesus refer to Moses and the prophets and the things they taught? Peter, your pantheism causes you great confusion.
Well he may have believed what Moses and the prophets before him said, but on the other hand, being politically savvy, he may have used what they said while all the time believing that those are the kinds of things you have to say if you wish to be seen as an authority by the Jews. But I believe he sincerely wanted to create a new religion which would be an improvement on the existing religion of the Jews. The Evolutionary Christians and Christian Pantheists are trying to improve on traditional Christianity. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "Only Buddhism is compatible with science. It covers the smallest particles to the largest creations of the cosmos. It is the only religion capable of scientific truth." Albert Einstein
Response:
As a pantheist, you worship many gods. You break the 1st commandment. No. Pantheism is monotheistic. Pantheists define God as "The Totality of Being" which could also be called "Nature" or "The Universe" There is only one such entity.
That is a pantheistic definition. Not God’s description of who He is. So, basically you worship man. Surely Jesus knew better than to believe myth? If that is so, why then did Jesus refer to Moses and the prophets and the things they taught? Peter, your pantheism causes you great confusion. Well he may have believed what Moses and the prophets before him said, but on the other hand, being politically savvy, he may have used what they said while all the time believing that those are the kinds of things you have to say if you wish to be seen as an authority by the Jews.
So, you are calling Jesus a liar, a scammer, a coniving individual? However, you say that your views are more in line with Jesus than other Christians. So, your religion is a lie and a scam?
Response:
That is a pantheistic definition. Not God’s description of who He is. So, basically you worship man.
Well, I believe that "God’s description of who He is" found in the Bible was written by ancient men, so the pantheist definition by modern men, should be no less valid. So, you are calling Jesus a liar, a scammer, a coniving individual?
Not at all. Jesus wanted to replace Judaism with a new religion, but if he had revealed his intentions at the start of his mission, he would have been arrested for heresy before he had accomplished anything at all. So I argue that in the interest of the greater good, he would have had to use a degree of deception. That is perfectly honorable but would have created different impressions in different peoples minds as to what he really believed. Regards, Peter The pantheistic Ibn Arabi preached a universal religion which comprises all religions and unites all beliefs. See: The Rational and Mystical Interpretations of Islam by A. E. Affifi http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1656&C=1640 Evolutionary Christianity http://www.evolutionarychristianity.org/ Christian Pantheists and Panentheists http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian_Pantheists_and_Panentheists/ The Epilogue of "Out of My Life and Thought" Albert Schweitzer http://www.chapman.edu/schweitzer/sch.reading3.html Does the Universe Care? Brother William SSF http://www.sof-in-australia.org/doestheu.htm The Environmental Crisis: A Challenge to Classical Christianity Lloyd Geering http://www.pirm.org.nz/pe2_christnature.html The Confluence of Religions Teilhard de Chardin http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/apr1970/v27-1-article5.htm Recovering Christian Pantheism as the Lost Gospel of Creation http://www.christianecology.org/ConsiderLillies.html A Christian Derivation of Pantheism http://www.pantheist.net/society/fader.html Christianity and Pantheism http://www.pantheist.net/society/christianity_and_pan_fox.html On Christian Panentheism Original Blessing Not Original Sin Matthew Fox http://www.nfgcc.org/mattfox.htm The Coming of the Cosmic Christ Review of Matthew Fox’s book by the same name http://www.frimmin.com/books/cosmicchrist.html Other Pages A Call for a New Reformation John S. Spong http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/reform.html A Theology of Joy: God in Process Thought http://www.christianecology.org/TheologyJoy.html Devotion to Truth http://www.pantheist.net/society/devotion_to_truth.html The God of Pantheism http://www.pantheist.net/society/god_of_pantheism.html Home page of the Universal Pantheist Society http://www.pantheist.net/ Home page of the World Pantheist Movement http://www.pantheism.net/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "Only Buddhism is compatible with science. It covers the smallest particles to the largest creations of the cosmos. It is the only religion capable of scientific truth." Albert Einstein
Response:
That is a pantheistic definition. Not God’s description of who He is. So, basically you worship man. Well, I believe that "God’s description of who He is" found in the Bible was written by ancient men, so the pantheist definition by modern men, should be no less valid.
Not exactly. You seem to have some belief in the New Testament. And, you say God’s description "found in the Bible was written by ancient men". In the New Testament it is written in 2 Peter 1:21 "Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", and in 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." God’s descriptions then were given to the ancient men by God, even the ancient men in the Old Testament, which you describe as myth. You seem to have conflict either with your own teachings, or your interpretations of those teachings. So, you are calling Jesus a liar, a scammer, a coniving individual? Not at all. Jesus wanted to replace Judaism with a new religion,
Yes you are calling him a scammer. You say so in the following paragraph, that it is perfectly honorable to use deception.To deceive, you have to lie. There is no difference between a big lie or a little lie, they are both lies. Jesus was not here to replace Judaism with a new religion. He was here to do the will of God, which was the redemption of mankind. if he had revealed his intentions at the start of his mission, he would have been arrested for heresy before he had accomplished anything at all. So I argue that in the interest of the greater good, he would have had to use a degree of deception. That is perfectly honorable but would have created different impressions in different peoples minds as to what he really believed.
Jesus never used deception in doing the work He was sent to do by God. By doing so, He would have done contrary to the will of God. Jesus said "I come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me." If He came in the Fathers name, and used deception, it would have had to be with the Fathers permission. However, that would make God deceptive, but God cannot be deceptive because he is righteous, just, and holy. Is your god unrighteous, unjust, and not holy? Being deceptive is honorable in your beliefs? And you say the Old Testament is a myth. You need only to look at what you are saying if you want a myth. And if there is any deceiving going on, it is your pantheism that is deceiving you, and they are doing an excellent job of it.
Response:
Hi SHOGUN…..being DECEPTIVE is holy and just in the islam belief system! I know that sounds "retarded" in a religion that preaches that they are just and rightteous but that’s just the way it is in Islam, it’s a religion playing second fiddle to the bible and it "attempts" to scare the Arabians at first, and now anybody else it can get it’s claws on, into converting or dying by the sword (so islam is as PEACEFUL as Hitler was peaceful to the Jews for that matter, in other words it simply ain’t anything that it preaches via the daily lies and minutia it spews). +Here are lovely quotes from the Koran itself, feel FREE to verify, and i LOVE the best part! What’s the BEST part you may ask??? The lying muslims that are going to be answering this thread on the post stating that…."Oh…you misinterprit what the Koran says" …. or my personal mosque pre-programmed lie…" Ohhhh…the Koran is holy and is meant to be read in Arabic ONLY!"…LOL..i speak Arabic and this stuff below is the translation….this is ALL in black and white from the Koran……check it out…. Surah IX:5-6 "Kill those who join other gods with god wherever you may find them" Surah VIII:12 "I will instill terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, then and strike off from them every fingertip" Surah XLVII:4 " When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; tehn when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" +My personal favorite…. Surah V:51 "Believers do NOT take jews or Christians as friends (this is WHAT moe means by INFIDELS by the way!). They are but one another’s friends. If anyone of you takes them for his friends, then he is surely one of them. God will not guide eveil doers" +WOW eh? islam sure is a 100% peaceful religion!! Yuppers! SIGN ME UP IMMEDIATELY to be full of hate and kill whomever ain’t a muslim. IF islam where, and sorry to break it to you because it isn’t, a true religion, it would NOT be preaching death to non-muslims. My muslim "brainwashed" friends, IT’S NEVER too late to tell the Mullah at the local mosque to go fly a kyte and to start living an unbrainwashed lifestyle. Why be sooo shut-in mentally by snares of a deceptive religion? You have a CHOICE and that choice is Jesus because through him you have LIFE! moe can take his parkinson’s and delusional antics to the garbage can. Peace my brothers and sisters! DON’T BE SCARED BECAUSE JESUS LOVES YOU! Johnie Faisal
Response:
Jesus said "I come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me." If He came in the Fathers name, and used deception, it would have had to be with the Fathers permission. However, that would make God deceptive, but God cannot be deceptive because he is righteous, just, and holy.
If God was righteous, just and holy, God would not allow the rape and murder of innocent children. Is your god unrighteous, unjust, and not holy?
Jesus said the most important commandment was to love God with all ones heart and with all ones might. If one can do this, then one can love God without expecting God to be righteous, just or holy. As I mentioned before, Christian Pantheists believe God is the Universe (or Nature if that term is preferred). We simply love God for giving us life and do not expect more from God than that. Best wishes, Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "Only Buddhism is compatible with science. It covers the smallest particles to the largest creations of the cosmos. It is the only religion capable of scientific truth." Albert Einstein
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jesus said "I come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me." If He came in the Fathers name, and used deception, it would have had to be with the Fathers permission. However, that would make God deceptive, but God cannot be deceptive because he is righteous, just, and holy. If God was righteous, just and holy, God would not allow the rape and murder of innocent children.
Again, you show your misunderstanding of the Bible and of God’s word. God gave man the the freedom to choose between right and wrong. It is man that is responsible for the rape and murder of children as well as adults. There should also be no wars either, according to what you say. And yet Jesus says in Matthew 24:6 "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet." and in Mark 13:7 "And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. This must take place, but the end is not yet." God is righteous, just and holy. It is man that is not. Is your god unrighteous, unjust, and not holy? Jesus said the most important commandment was to love God with all ones heart and with all ones might. If one can do this, then one can love God without expecting God to be righteous, just or holy.
Explain to me how God is not righteous, just or holy? He himself said in Isaiah 45:21 "And there is no other God besides me, a righteous God and a Saviour; there isnone besides me." In Isaiah 5:16 "But the Lord of hosts is exaulted in justice, and the Holy God shows himself holy in righteousness." By saying that one can love God without expecting him to be righteous, just or holy, you have put yourself before God, and you pass judgement on God. Who are you to pass judgement on God? As I mentioned before, Christian Pantheists believe God is the Universe (or Nature if that term is preferred).
What you believe is a false. Explain how the created (the universe) can be the creator (God). Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". The Old Testament (or as you called it, the myth) was written by holy men of God who spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21). You now have a great conflict in your interpretation. God says that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. He said this several times. He was before the universe and he will be after the universe. In Matthew, Mark and Luke it says that "Heaven and earth shall pass away: But my words shall never pass away." Heavens and earth and all celestial bodies are the universe. These shall pass away, but Gods words shall not. He is the Alpha and Omega. He is forever. The universe is not forever. Now explain how God is the universe.
Response:
Again, you show your misunderstanding of the Bible and of God’s word. God gave man the the freedom to choose between right and wrong.
Nevertheless, your so-called all-loving/all-powerful god has the power to stop such evil as the rape and murder of children, but for some sick reason, fails to stop the evil. How far can one bow to such a Satanic creature? Explain to me how God is not righteous, just or holy?
God has also just killed thousands of innocent children with a tsunami. Who are you to pass judgement on God?
Who are you then to say God is righteous? Are you not passing judgement when you say God is righteous? Explain how the created (the universe) can be the creator
Since the Universe includes everything that exists, the Universe includes God. Therefore if God has always existed, the Universe has always existed. Furthermore, since God is infinite and the Universe cannot be larger than infinite, God and the Universe must be the same. Best wishes, Peter
Response:
Again, you show your misunderstanding of the Bible and of God’s word. God gave man the the freedom to choose between right and wrong. Nevertheless, your so-called all-loving/all-powerful god has the power to stop such evil as the rape and murder of children, but for some sick reason, fails to stop the evil. How far can one bow to such a Satanic creature?
Mankind made the decision to do it their way which also happens to be Satan’s way. This isn’t God’s fault but YOURS. Explain to me how God is not righteous, just or holy? God has also just killed thousands of innocent children with a tsunami.
God didn’t do a thing. In fact, that is what you and the rest of mankind wanted – for God not to do a thing. You screwed it up so don’t blame God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who are you to pass judgement on God? Who are you then to say God is righteous? Are you not passing judgement when you say God is righteous? Explain how the created (the universe) can be the creator Since the Universe includes everything that exists, the Universe includes God. Therefore if God has always existed, the Universe has always existed. Furthermore, since God is infinite and the Universe cannot be larger than infinite, God and the Universe must be the same. Best wishes, Peter
Response:
Again, you show your misunderstanding of the Bible and of God’s word. God gave man the the freedom to choose between right and wrong. Nevertheless, your so-called all-loving/all-powerful god has the power to stop such evil as the rape and murder of children, but for some sick reason, fails to stop the evil. How far can one bow to such a Satanic creature?
As I suspected, you do not believe in God. Explain to me how God is not righteous, just or holy? God has also just killed thousands of innocent children with a tsunami.
It was your universe (or nature as you call it) that caused the tsunami. It happened before, it will happen again, and as long as people live in low lying areas near oceans, they may die. Plagues and famine and disasters and war are foretold in the Bible. All people will die someday. Whether of old age or of disaster, we die. No one lives on earth forever. We die when our days are up. Who are you to pass judgement on God? Who are you then to say God is righteous? Are you not passing judgement when you say God is righteous?
No. God says he is righteous, and just. Don’t you read or don’t you comprehend? Explain how the created (the universe) can be the creator Since the Universe includes everything that exists, the Universe includes God. Therefore if God has always existed, the Universe has always existed.
You still don’t answer the question. I could ask you which came first, the chicken or the egg. You wouldn’t answer that either. Furthermore, since God is infinite and the Universe cannot be larger than infinite, God and the Universe must be the same.
You confuse infinite with eternal. They are not the same. God is eternal. I can see that you are struggling for answers to the simple questions that I have asked you.
Response:
Hi SHOGUN…..being DECEPTIVE is holy and just in the islam belief system!
That is because Islam is a deceptive religion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -know that sounds "retarded" in a religion that preaches that they are just and rightteous but that’s just the way it is in Islam, it’s a religion playing second fiddle to the bible and it "attempts" to scare the Arabians at first, and now anybody else it can get it’s claws on, into converting or dying by the sword (so islam is as PEACEFUL as Hitler was peaceful to the Jews for that matter, in other words it simply ain’t anything that it preaches via the daily lies and minutia it spews). +Here are lovely quotes from the Koran itself, feel FREE to verify, and i LOVE the best part! What’s the BEST part you may ask??? The lying muslims that are going to be answering this thread on the post stating that…."Oh…you misinterprit what the Koran says" …. or my personal mosque pre-programmed lie…" Ohhhh…the Koran is holy and is meant to be read in Arabic ONLY!"…LOL..i speak Arabic and this stuff below is the translation….this is ALL in black and white from the Koran……check it out…. Surah IX:5-6 "Kill those who join other gods with god wherever you may find them" Surah VIII:12 "I will instill terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, then and strike off from them every fingertip" Surah XLVII:4 " When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; tehn when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" +My personal favorite…. Surah V:51 "Believers do NOT take jews or Christians as friends (this is WHAT moe means by INFIDELS by the way!). They are but one another’s friends. If anyone of you takes them for his friends, then he is surely one of them. God will not guide eveil doers" +WOW eh? islam sure is a 100% peaceful religion!! Yuppers! SIGN ME UP IMMEDIATELY to be full of hate and kill whomever ain’t a muslim. IF islam where, and sorry to break it to you because it isn’t, a true religion, it would NOT be preaching death to non-muslims. My muslim "brainwashed" friends, IT’S NEVER too late to tell the Mullah at the local mosque to go fly a kyte and to start living an unbrainwashed lifestyle. Why be sooo shut-in mentally by snares of a deceptive religion? You have a CHOICE and that choice is Jesus because through him you have LIFE! moe can take his parkinson’s and delusional antics to the garbage can. Peace my brothers and sisters! DON’T BE SCARED BECAUSE JESUS LOVES YOU! Johnie Faisal
Response:
Mankind made the decision to do it their way which also happens to be Satan’s way. This isn’t God’s fault but YOURS.
Insults will get you nowhere
Response:
No. God says he is righteous, and just. Don’t you read or don’t you comprehend?
I comprehend that scripture was written by men, so God has not claimed to be righteous or just. Best wishes, Peter
Response:
Mankind made the decision to do it their way which also happens to be Satan’s way. This isn’t God’s fault but YOURS. Insults will get you nowhere
It’s not intended to be an insult. Mankind made the decisionto do it their way rather than God’s. Funny, your attitude is similar to that of both Adam and Eve when confronted with their disobedience. Rather than excepting the blame, Eve blamed Satan and Adam had the audacity to blame God because God had given him the woman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
No. God says he is righteous, and just. Don’t you read or don’t you comprehend? I comprehend that scripture was written by men, so God has not claimed to be righteous or just.
Then you reject not only the Old Testament, but the New Testament as well, and God himself as well as Jesus. The New Testament says in 2 Peter 1:21 "Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." In 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." "A God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He." Deut. 32:4 By rejecting the Old and New Testaments, you don’t believe in God or Jesus.
Response:
I comprehend that scripture was written by men, so God has not claimed to be righteous or just. Then you reject not only the Old Testament, but the New Testament as well and God himself as well as Jesus.
Not at all. I accept the Bible as a mixture of truth and interesting fiction.
Response:
Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet who gave the world a message of peace and compassion. However, from early on, the message of Jesus was adulterated by the Catholic Church who elevated Him to the status of God. Muslims may therefore be pleased to learn of following Christian groups who have corrected this error. Evolutionary Christianity http://www.evolutionarychristianity.org/ Christian Pantheists and Panentheists http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian_Pantheists_and_Panentheists/ Peter
Response:
Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet who gave the world a message of peace and compassion. However, from early on, the message of Jesus was adulterated by the Catholic Church who elevated Him to the status of God.
What error? Are you saying that the Apostles adulterated Christ’s own words? Christ was not elevated to the status of God. He is God: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. In Christ’s own words: John 10:30 I and the Father are one." John 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves. Muslims may therefore be pleased to learn of following Christian groups who have corrected this error.
Why do you lead people astray?
Response:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Not the words of Jesus In Christ’s own words: John 10:30 I and the Father are one."
Comment: The Father (the Universe) and each one of us are inseparably one. But in spite of this unity, most of us don’t feel it. Jesus was different. He felt he and the Father were one. John 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father."
Comment: We are all in the Father (the Universe) and the Universe is in all of us. But again, in spite of this unity, most of us don’t feel it. Jesus was different and could do works to prove he was different. John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Comment: When a person speaks a truth of the Universe, he does not speak on his own authority, but on the authority of the Universe. The Universe is _in_ him and he is _in_ the Universe. The Universe is the Father that Jesus spoke of. John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
Comment: A true statement. Jesus is in the Father (the Universe) and the Universe is in Jesus. Jesus believed and knew and felt it. This gave him power to do his works. Why do you lead people astray?
There is only one objective truth. If people can find this truth, they can be united. Teilhard de Chardin predicted "The Confluence of Religions" See: http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/apr1970/v27-1-article5.htm The pantheistic Ibn Arabi preached a universal religion which comprises all religions and unites all beliefs. See: The Rational and Mystical Interpretations of Islam by A. E. Affifi http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1656&C=1640 The following sites provide futher insight. Evolutionary Christianity http://www.evolutionarychristianity.org/ Christian Pantheists and Panentheists http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christian_Pantheists_and_Panentheists/ Best wishes, Peter. Futher references On Christian Pantheism The Epilogue of "Out of My Life and Thought" Albert Schweitzer http://www.chapman.edu/schweitzer/sch.reading3.html Does the Universe Care? Brother William SSF http://www.sof-in-australia.org/doestheu.htm The Environmental Crisis: A Challenge to Classical Christianity Lloyd Geering http://www.pirm.org.nz/pe2_christnature.html The Confluence of Religions Teilhard de Chardin http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/apr1970/v27-1-article5.htm Recovering Christian Pantheism as the Lost Gospel of Creation http://www.christianecology.org/ConsiderLillies.html A Christian Derivation of Pantheism http://www.pantheist.net/society/fader.html Christianity and Pantheism http://www.pantheist.net/society/christianity_and_pan_fox.html On Christian Panentheism Original Blessing Not Original Sin Matthew Fox http://www.nfgcc.org/mattfox.htm The Coming of the Cosmic Christ Review of Matthew Fox’s book by the same name http://www.frimmin.com/books/cosmicchrist.html Other Pages A Call for a New Reformation John S. Spong http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/reform.html A Theology of Joy: God in Process Thought http://www.christianecology.org/TheologyJoy.html Devotion to Truth http://www.pantheist.net/society/devotion_to_truth.html The God of Pantheism http://www.pantheist.net/society/god_of_pantheism.html Home page of the Universal Pantheist Society http://www.pantheist.net/ Home page of the World Pantheist Movement http://www.pantheism.net/
