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Ok, WHIC David Burns book??

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The guy has too many books named nearly the same thing. Which is the better of them? I don’t need CBT re-re-re-explained to me and want to get to the meat and potatoes of it all. Feeling Good – The New Mood Therapy The Feeling Good Handbook Ten Days To Self-Esteem These are the ones under consideration.  I know the ten days to is NOT intended to actually work in ten days. I have no idea of the differences between the other two. Version and printing date would be helpful, ISBN would be great. Again, I am not after a book that describes CBT, I am after one that uses CBT. I would really like to find an audio book but not much is out there, not much that I have found as yet. The reason for the audio book type of thing is so that I am not hearing "Me" , I still don’t trust my inner voice all that much. Thanks, Thor

Hya Thor The New Mood Therapy would be my choise for you A lot of examples and things you can work out yourself I can hear you when you say you don’t need to a description but a helpful book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380731762/o/qid=934233179/sr=… You can order there – cheapest second hand copy is $ 3.17 love from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

  Thanks for the reply and the very helpful link!. I have a copy of this book, an   earlier version of this book, that I found on the net but it can be so difficult   to read e-books. I CANNOT read e-books I go insane ;-)     Did you not have a feel for the self-esteem book? I think it may be one of his   less known books. yes it is a good book also What I like about the other one is the constant reminder of out emotional distortions  And the fact you have pages with training . I always have the feeling our biggest hangups are the Shoulds the Woulds and the Ifs  I was with a friend last week and we discussed Buddhism ( the lifestyle that fits me  )and I daid I was not unlike REBT My friend told me that Ellis wrote a piece on the similarities in Buddhism and REBT I was happily surprised     What really surprises me is the lack of answers to my malformed (whic instead of   which<G)question. I would think that many in this group have read the Burns   books at one time or another. This is not a complaint, just an expression of   surprise. I am surprised also cause it is a very well known book here. But posting seems a bit slow these days (summer ?) Maybe you should put HELP before the question <G     Thank you again for the reply, link and especially the love.       Thor You are most welcome :-) Love from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Albert Ellis

Question:

Saw in the news that Albert Ellis died today (Thursday).  May he rest in peace.  He did a lot of good in his lifetime, IMO… I have several of his books, and reading his stuff helped me at a time when I was really in a bad spot! MikeH  . — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

  Saw in the news that Albert Ellis died today (Thursday).  May he rest in   peace.  He did a lot of good in his lifetime, IMO… I have several of his   books, and reading his stuff helped me at a time when I was really in a bad   spot!     MikeH        .   Hello Mike it was on the front page of our newspaper which I found very surprising but also relevant. His quotation " What Freud calls neurose is nothing more than whining " was in the article and it made me giggle again. A lot of the psychotherapists don’t agree with him. I think they don’t want 10 sessions but a lifetime of therapy . I always found there are similarities between Buddhism and Ellis Especially when it comes to the here and now philosophy and the Woulds shoulds  and ifs . Ellis as well as Buddhist teaching are very down to earth . He had a rich life and 94 is a great age Love from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

May Dr Ellis’ soul rest in peace. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Saw in the news that Albert Ellis died today (Thursday).  May he rest in   peace.  He did a lot of good in his lifetime, IMO… I have several of his   books, and reading his stuff helped me at a time when I was really in a bad   spot!   MikeH    . Hello Mike it was on the front page of our newspaper which I found very surprising but also relevant. His quotation " What Freud calls neurose is nothing more than whining " was in the article and it made me giggle again. A lot of the psychotherapists don’t agree with him. I think they don’t want 10 sessions but a lifetime of therapy . I always found there are similarities between Buddhism and Ellis Especially when it comes to the here and now philosophy and the Woulds shoulds  and ifs . Ellis as well as Buddhist teaching are very down to earth . He had a rich life and 94 is a great age Love from Anna

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

May Dr Ellis’ soul rest in peace.

He believed after death there was nothing. So I like the saying May we remember him :-) Love from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Saw in the news that Albert Ellis died today (Thursday).  

        Too bad.  He did a lot of good stuff.  I always thought he  was too simplistic in his approach, though.   May he rest in peace.  

        He didn’t think there was anything after, so I guess he will.  ;-)   May his next incarnation be a pleasant one.   Dennis — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Saw in the news that Albert Ellis died today (Thursday).  May he rest in peace.  He did a lot of good in his lifetime, IMO… I have several of his books, and reading his stuff helped me at a time when I was really in a bad spot! MikeH

Sad news.  His ideas have helped so many people. — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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::Saw in the news that Albert Ellis died today (Thursday).  May he rest in ::peace.  He did a lot of good in his lifetime, IMO… I have several of his ::books, and reading his stuff helped me at a time when I was really in a bad ::spot! R.I.P. Mr. Ellis! He has helped so many. Jackie ~*~I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself~*~      ~~Martin Buxbaum — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Treatment- New Member

Question:

"Gordo Mondragon" <ga_mondra…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ga_mondragon-C35E0F.18295127122005@news-rdr-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <1135723385.803089.146…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, > "Arclight" <emperor…@rogers.com> wrote: > [...] >> I have never once since my conversion "condemned" anyone. Thats not for >> me to do. >> Ref: "Judge not, lest ye be judged". Some people "think" that is what >> Christians are doing >> but it’s not necessarily so. > In early December you wrote: >> at the core of most who shout the loudest about not >> mentioning Christ is the obviousness of a very hurt, >> and lonely spirit. > That’s just one example of your baseless, biased, negative judgments > about people who don’t share your religious beliefs and who publically > say so. > You’re a liar. > [...] >> I’ve seen here throughout alot of religious debates >> Is a ton of people with pre-conceived Ideas about how Christians >> are…and thus we end up being the "judged" and "condemed" ones. > Spare me the christian-as-persecuted-minority         .  While some > people here have made generalizations about christians the majority of > complaints about you have been based on your words. > G

Almost *all* these complaints are from a few averse to the name of Jesus, but why don’t we drop it?  Gordo, things have been quieting down for the last week or so.    Let the Christians mention their faith without taking offense and we’ll let you tell of your latest hamster exploits Ahhaaahhhhaaaa!   Doug

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Doug: This is not a forum for discussing Christian or any other spiritual beliefs, nor is it a debate game for bored sick people, nor a Hep c information service.  No matter how important your Christianity is to you, it is not a viable topic on this board because it instantly becomes volatile, and you know that.  Displays of emotion and ego are inevitable and the dialogue turns sour.  Not only is the topic not viable, the protracted arguments and deliberate antagonism are plainly destructive to the heart of this group. Interestingly, there is a small splinter group of us now who talk privately via email about art and creativity, because we find it healing. Would I be making a mistake to propose that those of you strongly inclined toward religious discussion contact each other via email so that you can communicate freely without risk of deterring newbies and loyal old timers? kj

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Did you read my post?  I suggest you read it again.     Doug "kjoh" <kjohyay…@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ec82bd5f34e659a6d2d0665d15f61af2@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Doug: This is not a forum for discussing Christian or any other spiritual > beliefs, nor is it a debate game for bored sick people, nor a Hep c > information service.  No matter how important your Christianity is to you, > it is not a viable topic on this board because it instantly becomes > volatile, and you know that.  Displays of emotion and ego are inevitable > and the dialogue turns sour.  Not only is the topic not viable, the > protracted arguments and deliberate antagonism are plainly destructive to > the heart of this group. > Interestingly, there is a small splinter group of us now who talk > privately via email about art and creativity, because we find it healing. > Would I be making a mistake to propose that those of you strongly inclined > toward religious discussion contact each other via email so that you can > communicate freely without risk of deterring newbies and loyal old timers? > kj

Response:

In article <Xq2dneCYpZ8Uii_eRVn…@adelphia.com>,  "Doug" <dttr…@adelphia.net> wrote:

[...] > Almost *all* these complaints are from a few averse to the name of Jesus, > but why don’t we drop it?

Almost all the complaints are from a few who insist on asserting their monolithic beliefs. >  Gordo, things have been quieting down for the > last week or so.    Let the Christians mention their faith without taking > offense and we’ll let you tell of your latest hamster exploits

Hahhahahah.  Fuckwit.

Response:

Yeah Shawn, I hear ya. Even a moderator would deter some of the sweet crazies in here.  This may be kind of an unsolvable cyber problem.  Too bad. I have made private contact with some of my favorite hearts in here (as you know :) because sometimes I think all bitterness generated might ultimately bring this board down.  And I admit to having contributed to some of it myself. kj kjohyayhoo at  yahoo  dot com >>Shawn wrote: >>Sadly, only a moderator would be able to solve that problem.–

Shawn (use the "reply feature on your browser to send a private reply via E-Mail.) "kjoh" <kjohyay…@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:03ca7bbeb5f36e112e76d64f2aebe63d@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… > The problem is that religion is such a sensitive issue, and most of us

are living so close to the edge, that when someone brings it up, this highly diverse group always erupts and degenerates into volumes of angry garble that continues for days. The topic of hep c gets trampled and important thoughts about it never get written,…

Response:

You go Gordo :)  Might be time to call out the farters and nosepickers again. kj chief nosepicker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Gordo wrote: Hahhahahah.  Fuckwit.

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"kjoh" <kjohyay…@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:90846811335408b9f66330432e903af1@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… > Yeah Shawn, I hear ya. Even a moderator would deter some of the sweet > crazies in here.  This may be kind of an unsolvable cyber problem.  Too > bad. > I have made private contact with some of my favorite hearts in here …

Well, …… dttrash-at-adelphia.net   :-)      Doug

Response:

WS said: Christianity, any religion, is not a smorgasbord lunch where you just take the things you like. It’s the full meal deal, and it condems anyone who eats at the sushi bar next door. No, Christianity isn’t a pick and choose what you like and disregard the rest. Neither is anything worthwhile. But as for the condemnation remark, that becomes person to person..Not ALL. I have never once since my conversion "condemned" anyone. Thats not for me to do. Ref: "Judge not, lest ye be judged". Some people "think" that is what Christians are doing but it’s not necessarily so. God is my judge. If you came here saying if you don’t worship tree’s you’re going to Hell. I wouldn’t feel condemned. I would just disagree with you. YOU have to receive the condemnation before it has a place. From what I’ve seen here throughout alot of religious debates Is a ton of people with pre-conceived Ideas about how Christians are…and thus we end up being the "judged" and "condemed" ones. But that again, doesn’t bother me a bit. I’m convinced of my beliefs, I’m not telling you to be. You must understand that to be a Christian in the truest sense is to believe we are to help all who are in need. Key on ALL. Muslim, Druid, Hindu, Buddhist..etc…Love knows no boundries. But if you measure every Christian into one lump and say you’re all alike. That is wrong. There is good, bad, and ugly in everything. Why would saying "bless you" mean I’m judging you? Christians say it to each other all the time..Are we judging each other? Don’t think so. We are hoping and praying God’s best for your life. You speak of Believing in the Laws of Christianity. Jesus said He came to do away with the letter of the law. His New Testament is one of Grace…Unmerited favor….We are held to the law of love…

Response:

In article <1135723385.803089.146…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,  "Arclight" <emperor…@rogers.com> wrote:

[...] > I have never once since my conversion "condemned" anyone. Thats not for > me to do. > Ref: "Judge not, lest ye be judged". Some people "think" that is what > Christians are doing > but it’s not necessarily so.

In early December you wrote: > at the core of most who shout the loudest about not > mentioning Christ is the obviousness of a very hurt, > and lonely spirit.

That’s just one example of your baseless, biased, negative judgments about people who don’t share your religious beliefs and who publically say so. You’re a liar. [...] > I’ve seen here throughout alot of religious debates > Is a ton of people with pre-conceived Ideas about how Christians > are…and thus we end up being the "judged" and "condemed" ones.

Spare me the christian-as-persecuted-minority bullshit.  While some people here have made generalizations about christians the majority of complaints about you have been based on your words. G

Response:

The problem is that religion is such a sensitive issue, and most of us are living so close to the edge, that when someone brings it up, this highly diverse group always erupts and degenerates into volumes of angry garble that continues for days. The topic of hep c gets trampled and important thoughts about it never get written, Newbies that might be helped and important oldies disappear. We all know it isn’t as simple as ignoring posts or using killfiles. Because of the dynamics of the group, these awful  conflagrations appear inevitable.  And ultimately sad.  Is there any solution?  I wonder if we could bring our faith (in healing) but leave religion at the door? kj

Response:

"kjoh" <kjohyay…@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:03ca7bbeb5f36e112e76d64f2aebe63d@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… > The problem is that religion is such a sensitive issue, and most of us are > living so close to the edge, that when someone brings it up, this highly > diverse group always erupts and degenerates into volumes of angry garble > that continues for days. > The topic of hep c gets trampled and important thoughts about it never get > written, Newbies that might be helped and important oldies disappear. > We all know it isn’t as simple as ignoring posts or using killfiles. > Because of the dynamics of the group, these awful  conflagrations appear > inevitable.  And ultimately sad.  Is there any solution?  I wonder if we > could bring our faith (in healing) but leave religion at the door?

Yeah, what she said! Well put, KoJoh. WS

Response:

Waterspider, Christianity is not a religion, Catholicism is a religion.  A Christian is one who follows Christ, period.  There are all types of Christians it is a personal thing. When will you get that through your head? Why can’t you figure that out?  Why don’t you just drop it?  You can’t drop it can you?  It’s like magic!       Doug "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonlight.net> wrote in message

news:11r3ad992gkg0c5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "eileen" <samiamtwo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1135712701.339497.153850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… >> Waterspider wrote: >>> "OpenBookman" <Livingasy…@nospam.aol.com> wrote … >>> > Thank you all for your comments,questions,answers and prayers. I look >>> > forward to further participation on this board, I think I have found >>> > the >>> > home and friends that I need for my future. >>> > Sorry about the double post, I’m having a bit of trouble with my >>> > computer, >>> > it needs help too. Thanks again and God Bless you all. >>> Hi Dave, >>> Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good >>> information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles >>> from >>> time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because we >>> don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might turn >>> us >>> to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother sailing if >>> we >>> keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for *all* of us. >>> All the best, >>> Waterspider >> There you go again Spider, telling someone to keep religion out of >> ash-c! >> I have kept quiet long enough about this         ! >> Your failure to have religion, in no way bothers me.  But when you tell >> others who have religion, to leave it out for the good of all of us, it >> sucks. >> When will you get it? > When will *you* get it, Eileen? > This is a hep c support group that has members from all over the world, > from all walks of life and from a variety of religious backgrounds. > Christian references are great for Christians, but too easily alienate > those of other religions or no religion. > The foundation of Christianity is the belief that the Christian god is the > one and only god, and that those who do not believe in him are heathens, > sinners, lost souls, whatever (a Christian’s mission is to convert the > heathens). > So, when someone says, "God bless you, we are praying for you, it’s in > God’s hands, yada yada yada," they are telling me that they have judged me > because I am not a Christian. > Now, if you don’t believe the laws of Christian religion, then you > shouldn’t call yourself a Christian. > If you believe that your god loves Muslims, Satanists, Buddhists and > Wiccans as much as he loves his Christians, then you’re commiting a sin in > the eyes of your lord. > Christianity, any religion, is not a smorgasbord lunch where you just take > the things you like. It’s the full meal deal, and it condems anyone who > eats at the sushi bar next door. > Waterspider >> You will not stop one single one of us from posting our support in the >> way we know that helps us. I have seen the ugliest come out in this >> group in the last few weeks and it comes from people I once respected >> and others I have only just had the opportunity to get to know.  I have >> been around a long time, longer than most of you here. There has never >> been a spokesperson for this entire group and you may be very popular >> and likeable but you are not my spokesperson.  Perhaps you might word >> your reply to someone new that it personally bothers you for a >> blessing. (this might be a better way of going about this.) >> I’ll have no pissing contest with anyone here, I am not trying to >> change your belief at all, but refrain from trying to suppress anyone >> from speaking freely at all.  As a newspaper person, I would have >> thought that you would know the balance and value of free speech. >> I don’t post that often as I am not always up to posting.  Other times >> I stopped reading this group because I was so sick and the         tipped >> the (my) meter. >> I was once a productive member of SMDH and ASHC, I was an NP, (ya know, >> the ones some of you claim don’t know jack shit!) I went to Washington, >> DC to speak on HCV’s needs on a medical panel.  I since, have suffered >> several strokes and lost a kidney to hcv.  Do you know how many brain >> cells die when this happens? Tell me!.. I lost short term memory at one >> these events, but don’t tell me what I can or can’t post in this public >> forum. >> I am required by my own values to remain thoughtful of others when >> replying and I really did take the time to do it.  I’ll ask the same of >> you and others. >> To all:  Every post is someone calling out for a word from someone >> else, if at any time any one of you lose site of that, you need to take >> a break. >> eileen

Response:

Sadly, only a moderator would be able to solve that problem. — Shawn (use the "reply feature on your browser to send a private reply via E-Mail.) "kjoh" <kjohyay…@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:03ca7bbeb5f36e112e76d64f2aebe63d@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The problem is that religion is such a sensitive issue, and most of us are > living so close to the edge, that when someone brings it up, this highly > diverse group always erupts and degenerates into volumes of angry garble > that continues for days. > The topic of hep c gets trampled and important thoughts about it never get > written, Newbies that might be helped and important oldies disappear. > We all know it isn’t as simple as ignoring posts or using killfiles. > Because of the dynamics of the group, these awful  conflagrations appear > inevitable.  And ultimately sad.  Is there any solution?  I wonder if we > could bring our faith (in healing) but leave religion at the door? > kj

Response:

OB Bro – I forgot to say – I have some leftover Infergen & Ribaviran, if that will be a financial issue & if that the tx your going for. I didn’t know about the legal issues, but then I don’t really care about the legal issues. Good Luck, Steve

Response:

Thank you all for your comments,questions,answers and prayers. I look forward to further participation on this board, I think I have found the home and friends that I need for my future. Sorry about the double post, I’m having a bit of trouble with my computer, it needs help too. Thanks again and God Bless you all. OpenBookman David

Response:

"OpenBookman" <Livingasy…@nospam.aol.com> wrote … > Thank you all for your comments,questions,answers and prayers. I look > forward to further participation on this board, I think I have found the > home and friends that I need for my future. > Sorry about the double post, I’m having a bit of trouble with my computer, > it needs help too. Thanks again and God Bless you all.

Hi Dave, Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles from time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because we don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might turn us to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother sailing if we keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for *all* of us. All the best, Waterspider

Response:

"Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonlight.net> wrote in message

news:11r1531mmnj8871@corp.supernews.com… > Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good > information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles from > time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because we > don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might turn > us to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother sailing > if we keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for *all* of us. > All the best, > Waterspider

WS  what’s with my name in the post header?   Doug

Response:

Let’s try that again: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good >> information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles >> from time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because >> we don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might >> turn us to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother >> sailing if we keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for >> *all* of us. >> All the best, >> Waterspider

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Welcome to the group, OB.   elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waterspider wrote: > "OpenBookman" <Livingasy…@nospam.aol.com> wrote … > > Thank you all for your comments,questions,answers and prayers. I look > > forward to further participation on this board, I think I have found the > > home and friends that I need for my future. > > Sorry about the double post, I’m having a bit of trouble with my computer, > > it needs help too. Thanks again and God Bless you all. > Hi Dave, > Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good > information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles from > time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because we > don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might turn us > to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother sailing if we > keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for *all* of us. > All the best, > Waterspider

There you go again Spider, telling someone to keep religion out of ash-c! I have kept quiet long enough about this bullshit! Your failure to have religion, in no way bothers me.  But when you tell others who have religion, to leave it out for the good of all of us, it sucks. When will you get it? You will not stop one single one of us from posting our support in the way we know that helps us. I have seen the ugliest come out in this group in the last few weeks and it comes from people I once respected and others I have only just had the opportunity to get to know.  I have been around a long time, longer than most of you here. There has never been a spokesperson for this entire group and you may be very popular and likeable but you are not my spokesperson.  Perhaps you might word your reply to someone new that it personally bothers you for a blessing. (this might be a better way of going about this.) I’ll have no pissing contest with anyone here, I am not trying to change your belief at all, but refrain from trying to suppress anyone from speaking freely at all.  As a newspaper person, I would have thought that you would know the balance and value of free speech. I don’t post that often as I am not always up to posting.  Other times I stopped reading this group because I was so sick and the bullshit tipped the (my) meter. I was once a productive member of SMDH and ASHC, I was an NP, (ya know, the ones some of you claim don’t know jack shit!) I went to Washington, DC to speak on HCV’s needs on a medical panel.  I since, have suffered several strokes and lost a kidney to hcv.  Do you know how many brain cells die when this happens? Tell me!.. I lost short term memory at one these events, but don’t tell me what I can or can’t post in this public forum. I am required by my own values to remain thoughtful of others when replying and I really did take the time to do it.  I’ll ask the same of you and others. To all:  Every post is someone calling out for a word from someone else, if at any time any one of you lose site of that, you need to take a break.   eileen

Response:

"eileen" <samiamtwo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1135712701.339497.153850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Waterspider wrote: >> "OpenBookman" <Livingasy…@nospam.aol.com> wrote … >> > Thank you all for your comments,questions,answers and prayers. I look >> > forward to further participation on this board, I think I have found >> > the >> > home and friends that I need for my future. >> > Sorry about the double post, I’m having a bit of trouble with my >> > computer, >> > it needs help too. Thanks again and God Bless you all. >> Hi Dave, >> Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good >> information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles >> from >> time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because we >> don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might turn >> us >> to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother sailing if >> we >> keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for *all* of us. >> All the best, >> Waterspider > There you go again Spider, telling someone to keep religion out of > ash-c! > I have kept quiet long enough about this bullshit! > Your failure to have religion, in no way bothers me.  But when you tell > others who have religion, to leave it out for the good of all of us, it > sucks. > When will you get it? > You will not stop one single one of us from posting our support in the > way we know that helps us. I have seen the ugliest come out in this > group in the last few weeks and it comes from people I once respected > and others I have only just had the opportunity to get to know.  I have > been around a long time, longer than most of you here. There has never > been a spokesperson for this entire group and you may be very popular > and likeable but you are not my spokesperson.  Perhaps you might word > your reply to someone new that it personally bothers you for a > blessing. (this might be a better way of going about this.) > I’ll have no pissing contest with anyone here, I am not trying to > change your belief at all, but refrain from trying to suppress anyone > from speaking freely at all.  As a newspaper person, I would have > thought that you would know the balance and value of free speech. > I don’t post that often as I am not always up to posting.  Other times > I stopped reading this group because I was so sick and the bullshit > tipped the (my) meter. > I was once a productive member of SMDH and ASHC, I was an NP, (ya know, > the ones some of you claim don’t know jack shit!) I went to Washington, > DC to speak on HCV’s needs on a medical panel.  I since, have suffered > several strokes and lost a kidney to hcv.  Do you know how many brain > cells die when this happens? Tell me!.. I lost short term memory at one > these events, but don’t tell me what I can or can’t post in this public > forum. > I am required by my own values to remain thoughtful of others when > replying and I really did take the time to do it.  I’ll ask the same of > you and others. > To all:  Every post is someone calling out for a word from someone > else, if at any time any one of you lose site of that, you need to take > a break. > eileen

I hear you and am in agreement.  Not to offend anyone I won’t piss in the wind either…        Doug

Response:

"eileen" <samiamtwo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1135712701.339497.153850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Waterspider wrote: >> "OpenBookman" <Livingasy…@nospam.aol.com> wrote … >> > Thank you all for your comments,questions,answers and prayers. I look >> > forward to further participation on this board, I think I have found >> > the >> > home and friends that I need for my future. >> > Sorry about the double post, I’m having a bit of trouble with my >> > computer, >> > it needs help too. Thanks again and God Bless you all. >> Hi Dave, >> Glad you like the neighbourhood, and I’m sure you’ll find lots of good >> information and excellent support here, not to mention a few chuckles >> from >> time to time. However, not all of us will be praying for you because we >> don’t all share your belief, and God Blessing some of us just might turn >> us >> to dust  :)  In other words, with respect, it’s much smoother sailing if >> we >> keep religion out of ash-c, and that’s a good thing for *all* of us. >> All the best, >> Waterspider > There you go again Spider, telling someone to keep religion out of > ash-c! > I have kept quiet long enough about this bullshit! > Your failure to have religion, in no way bothers me.  But when you tell > others who have religion, to leave it out for the good of all of us, it > sucks. > When will you get it?

When will *you* get it, Eileen? This is a hep c support group that has members from all over the world, from all walks of life and from a variety of religious backgrounds. Christian references are great for Christians, but too easily alienate those of other religions or no religion. The foundation of Christianity is the belief that the Christian god is the one and only god, and that those who do not believe in him are heathens, sinners, lost souls, whatever (a Christian’s mission is to convert the heathens). So, when someone says, "God bless you, we are praying for you, it’s in God’s hands, yada yada yada," they are telling me that they have judged me because I am not a Christian. Now, if you don’t believe the laws of Christian religion, then you shouldn’t call yourself a Christian. If you believe that your god loves Muslims, Satanists, Buddhists and Wiccans as much as he loves his Christians, then you’re commiting a sin in the eyes of your lord. Christianity, any religion, is not a smorgasbord lunch where you just take the things you like. It’s the full meal deal, and it condems anyone who eats at the sushi bar next door. Waterspider – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You will not stop one single one of us from posting our support in the > way we know that helps us. I have seen the ugliest come out in this > group in the last few weeks and it comes from people I once respected > and others I have only just had the opportunity to get to know.  I have > been around a long time, longer than most of you here. There has never > been a spokesperson for this entire group and you may be very popular > and likeable but you are not my spokesperson.  Perhaps you might word > your reply to someone new that it personally bothers you for a > blessing. (this might be a better way of going about this.) > I’ll have no pissing contest with anyone here, I am not trying to > change your belief at all, but refrain from trying to suppress anyone > from speaking freely at all.  As a newspaper person, I would have > thought that you would know the balance and value of free speech. > I don’t post that often as I am not always up to posting.  Other times > I stopped reading this group because I was so sick and the bullshit > tipped the (my) meter. > I was once a productive member of SMDH and ASHC, I was an NP, (ya know, > the ones some of you claim don’t know jack shit!) I went to Washington, > DC to speak on HCV’s needs on a medical panel.  I since, have suffered > several strokes and lost a kidney to hcv.  Do you know how many brain > cells die when this happens? Tell me!.. I lost short term memory at one > these events, but don’t tell me what I can or can’t post in this public > forum. > I am required by my own values to remain thoughtful of others when > replying and I really did take the time to do it.  I’ll ask the same of > you and others. > To all:  Every post is someone calling out for a word from someone > else, if at any time any one of you lose site of that, you need to take > a break. > eileen

Response:

Are you a para or a quad?  Doug "OpenBookman" <Livingasy…@nospam.aol.com> wrote in message

news:c427a41771657d0ff7ac05aaba584411@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Greetings: > I have Hep C type 3b, viral load as of 3 months ago was 270,000. Minor > scarring onh my liver. I also have a truckload of other health issues. > Spinal Cord Injury, Chronic Pain treated with narcotics, Diabetes, slow > moving digestive system that keeps me nauseas without vomitting all the > time.To top it off I also suffer from depression, treated poorly with an > SSRI. > I am due to start treatment at the end of January. > Any and all comments suggestions, questions etc. would be greatly > appreciated.  I am really scared about the treatment as I have read far to > many horror stories. Thank you for your help. > Best, > OpenBookman > David

Response:

OB- Holy fuckin Christ! I thought I had health issues. G1a, F3, n spleen, chronic pain, No narcotics because i am a recovering addict. G3b, from what I’ve read responds pretty well to tx. I’ll have a talk with my man upstairs for you. I hope you live in a place where excellent Med Care is available. I stopped round 2 tx after seven months (nonresponder). Hell, if you can survive all that other shit – you have some cahones man. Good Luck & I’ll be hoping for a quick repsonse to tx & an SVR for you. Hang in there & keep posting here, Steve

Response:

Greetings: I have Hep C type 3b, viral load as of 3 months ago was 270,000. Minor scarring onh my liver. I also have a truckload of other health issues. Spinal Cord Injury, Chronic Pain treated with narcotics, Diabetes, slow moving digestive system that keeps me nauseas without vomitting all the time.To top it off I also suffer from depression, treated poorly with an SSRI. I am due to start treatment at the end of January. Any and all comments suggestions, questions etc. would be greatly appreciated.  I am really scared about the treatment as I have read far to many horror stories. Thank you for your help. Best, OpenBookman David

Response:

Taking a hint, I'm out of here.

Question:

Re: Taking a hint, I’m out of here.   Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Dec 21, 2005, 10:49pm (CST+1) From: greyhack…@NOSPAMyahoo.com (greyhackles) On 21 Dec 2005 18:23:35 -0800, "Arclight" <emperor…@rogers.com> wrote: [el snippo] "How can we miss you if you won’t ever leave?"   ////////////// ahahahahahaha!!!!! I think he needs another boot in the ass, Grey.   elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

Re: Taking a hint, I’m out of here.   Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Dec 22, 2005, 1:39am (CST+7) From: nos…@nuncaspam.comorg (Michael

OT: Atheism teaches…

Question:

Atheism is not a religion. Pa Rum Pa Pum Pum. Poooooot!  Vroooot! kj not an atheist

Response:

Re: OT: Atheism teaches…   Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2005, 1:53pm (CST+1) From: kjohyay…@nospamyahoo.com (kjoh) Atheism is not a religion. Pa Rum Pa Pum Pum. Poooooot! Vroooot! kj not an atheist /////////// Smells like….ummm…..peaches? elmo nor a boo-dist be http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

Paul2 wrote: > Faith = The substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things yet seen. > That is faith. Blind Faith is a contradiction in terms.

Let’s see. You have faith that the chair you are sitting in will not fall apart. You have faith that when you ride in an elevator, it will work and won’t come crashing down. You have faith that what goes up must come down. This faith is based on experience and actual proof, not a "leap of faith" that is required in order to believe in a god that doesn’t exist. > Faith believes in > something it CANNOT see…so if you must, yes it’s blind in that regards…

Yes, it is blind faith which is different than a faith based on actual proof. > Atheism is a Religion. It’s based upon non-conclusive facts(thats why > scientist turn to God in some cases)

Erm, I am a Buddhist so quit comparing me to atheists, although the Buddhism I pracise does not believe in a god that doesn’t exist. We take responsibility for our destiny and do not leave it in god’s hands. > For me it takes more of a stretch to believe that this ALL happened by > chance and that I come from a Monkey..

I don’t know if we came from monkeys or not and don’t really care. > But hey, if thats what you believe fine…You still have FAITH in the > Atheistic belief..Pure and simple. > Have you found the Missing Link yet Cody? > There isn’t one.

You’re assuming that I believe there is one and that I am looking for it. I am not. > If I get extreme satisfaction from nature because I believe it was lovingly > created, why is that a stretch?

Because no god created it. NOTHING in this universe can be created or destroyed, only the form can change. Science 101. > Would you have us all as cynical and bitter as you?

I am neither cynical nor bitter. > Anyway Cody, all the best to you and yours……Keep searching! > Paul2

I am not searching. I have found Buddhism and I found it 37 years ago. Cody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message > news:NScof.122986$dr.22707@news.ono.com… >>Paul2 wrote: >>>Prove it Cody. >>Prove what? >>>Like all things spiritual it takes FAITH……….Look up the meaning of >>>FAITH… >>You mean *blind* faith. >>>Christians are men and women of FAITH. >>Erm, *blind* faith. >>>Without FAITH it is impossible to comprehend GOD………..In ANY > religion.. >>False. I have faith but it is based on actual proof, not blinding >>believing in a book that has be rewritten over the ages to suit the >>political needs of various popes. >>>You sir, are without FAITH, which doesn’t make you right or wrong, it > just >>>makes it impossible for YOU to understand Christianity or any form of >>>Religion basing it’s beliefs on a un-seen God.. >>I do have faith, just not in a god that doesn’t exist. I believe in >>cause and effect and that one must take responsibility for one’s actions >>  and not expect some nebulous god to "forgive my sins". >>>But for me, it’s all too easy to believe in a loving creator….I just > look >>>out my window and see God everyday.. >>Um, what you see is not god. >>>I hold my wife and think of my kids and KNOW there is a loving God whom > I >>>call Father… >>Your non existent god had nothing to do with the existence of your wife >>and kids. >>>I close my eyes, lay back on the bank of a river, the Sun on my face, > the >>>birds singing, the tug on my fishing line, and I know there is a > God…… >>LOL! What a stretch! >>>See, that is MY presupposition……..Everything stems from God……The >>>Loving Creator of this World…….. >>>Why does that offend you so Cody? >>Because people like you who believe in a god that doesn’t exist have >>murdered millions in the god’s name, of course! >>>But……… >>>Your Crusade against Christianity must continue……I’m sorry for what > ever >>>Christians have done to you in the past in the name of Jesus…….. >>It has nothing to do with my personal experiences. >>>But you have to let it go Cody………Bitterness and unforgiveness rot > the >>>soul… >>>Merry Christmas >>>Paul2 >>I don’t celebrate Christmas, nor do I worship a dead, bloody body on a >>cross. >>Cody >>>"Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message >>>news:05cof.122981$dr.98810@news.ono.com… >>>>Dwight wrote: >>>>>Waterspider wrote: >>>>>>"Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … >>>>>>>Waterspider wrote: >>>>>>>>Atheism teaches that… >>>>>>>>There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful > diety. >>>>>>>>Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and >>>>>>>>fools, or they will suffer and perish. >>>>>>>>There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must >>>>>>>>help man. >>>>>>>>There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good >>>behaviour. >>>>>>>>There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. >>>>>>>>There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the >>>>>>>>consequences of our acts. >>>>>>>>There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of >>>>>>>>every day, every minute of this one and only life. >>>>>>>>There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a >>>>>>>>struggle against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. >>>>>>>>The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for >>>>>>>>humankind. >>>>>>>>There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. >>>>>>>>These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be >>>>>>>>cultivated by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. >>>>>>>>These are my beliefs. >>>>>>>>Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that >>>>>>>>Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only >>>>>>>>exception that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and >>>>>>>>others not sharing their belief and worshipping their god are >>>>>>>>inherently evil. When, for example, a Christian says that his >>>>>>>>religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified me as a >>>>>>>>heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those >>>>>>>>specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then >>>>>>>>he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). >>>>>>>>It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in >>>>>>>>public, and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children >>>>>>>>(and American soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his >>>>>>>>counterparts in middle-eastern countries. >>>>>>>>I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not >>>>>>>>evil. But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d >>>>>>>>appreciate it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of >>>>>>>>definition, define me as the enemy. >>>>>>>>Waterspider >>>>>>>WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve >>>>>>>known you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, >>>>>>>I’ve considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel >>>>>>>this way about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. >>>>>>>My beliefs have always told me not to judge other people and to be >>>>>>>forgiving of those that have done something to me, and this is what I >>>>>>>strive to accomplish. I respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs >>>>>>>of others here in this group. I wish we could all get together >>>>>>>somewhere, I think we would find out that we could all get along >>>>>>>together and we may even find that we like each other. I may be >>>>>>>dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I just have a >>>>>>>few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m praying >>>>>>>for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good >>>>>>>wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I >>>>>>>promise it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it >>>>>>>is not intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, >>>>>>>our lives have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to >>>>>>>fight than those with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s >>>>>>>beliefs, no matter how hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe >>>>>>>we can help someone get through this fight with the dragon a little >>>>>>>easier. A kind word, a little knowledge, and a little compassion is >>>>>>>much more beneficial than a lot of useless bickering. >>>>>>>Thanks for your time. >>>>>>Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches >>>>>>that those who are not believers in their god are sinners and >>>>>>heathens, and the Christian church member’s duty to his church is to >>>>>>save the soul of the non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me >>>>>>to be a heathen or you don’t follow the rules of your own god. >>>>>>Waterspider >>>>>>p.s. Either way, I still like you :) >>>>>God said don’t judge and to forgive, I don’t care what the church says. >>>>>Churches are man made and man is fallible. >>>>And men (no women, btw) wrote the Bible, which is what you are >>>>paraphrasing. God hasn’t *said* anything to anyone because he doesn’t >>>exist. >>>>Cody

Response:

Faith = The substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things yet seen. That is faith. Blind Faith is a contradiction in terms. Faith believes in something it CANNOT see…so if you must, yes it’s blind in that regards… Atheism is a Religion. It’s based upon non-conclusive facts(thats why scientist turn to God in some cases) For me it takes more of a stretch to believe that this ALL happened by chance and that I come from a Monkey.. But hey, if thats what you believe fine…You still have FAITH in the Atheistic belief..Pure and simple. Have you found the Missing Link yet Cody? There isn’t one. If I get extreme satisfaction from nature because I believe it was lovingly created, why is that a stretch? Would you have us all as cynical and bitter as you? Anyway Cody, all the best to you and yours……Keep searching! Paul2 "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message

news:NScof.122986$dr.22707@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul2 wrote: > > Prove it Cody. > Prove what? > > Like all things spiritual it takes FAITH……….Look up the meaning of > > FAITH… > You mean *blind* faith. > > Christians are men and women of FAITH. > Erm, *blind* faith. > > Without FAITH it is impossible to comprehend GOD………..In ANY religion.. > False. I have faith but it is based on actual proof, not blinding > believing in a book that has be rewritten over the ages to suit the > political needs of various popes. > > You sir, are without FAITH, which doesn’t make you right or wrong, it just > > makes it impossible for YOU to understand Christianity or any form of > > Religion basing it’s beliefs on a un-seen God.. > I do have faith, just not in a god that doesn’t exist. I believe in > cause and effect and that one must take responsibility for one’s actions >   and not expect some nebulous god to "forgive my sins". > > But for me, it’s all too easy to believe in a loving creator….I just look > > out my window and see God everyday.. > Um, what you see is not god. > > I hold my wife and think of my kids and KNOW there is a loving God whom I > > call Father… > Your non existent god had nothing to do with the existence of your wife > and kids. > > I close my eyes, lay back on the bank of a river, the Sun on my face, the > > birds singing, the tug on my fishing line, and I know there is a God…… > LOL! What a stretch! > > See, that is MY presupposition……..Everything stems from God……The > > Loving Creator of this World…….. > > Why does that offend you so Cody? > Because people like you who believe in a god that doesn’t exist have > murdered millions in the god’s name, of course! > > But……… > > Your Crusade against Christianity must continue……I’m sorry for what ever > > Christians have done to you in the past in the name of Jesus…….. > It has nothing to do with my personal experiences. > > But you have to let it go Cody………Bitterness and unforgiveness rot the > > soul… > > Merry Christmas > > Paul2 > I don’t celebrate Christmas, nor do I worship a dead, bloody body on a > cross. > Cody > > "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message > > news:05cof.122981$dr.98810@news.ono.com… > >>Dwight wrote: > >>>Waterspider wrote: > >>>>"Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … > >>>>>Waterspider wrote: > >>>>>>Atheism teaches that… > >>>>>>There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. > >>>>>>Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and > >>>>>>fools, or they will suffer and perish. > >>>>>>There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must > >>>>>>help man. > >>>>>>There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good > > behaviour. > >>>>>>There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. > >>>>>>There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the > >>>>>>consequences of our acts. > >>>>>>There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of > >>>>>>every day, every minute of this one and only life. > >>>>>>There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a > >>>>>>struggle against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. > >>>>>>The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for > >>>>>>humankind. > >>>>>>There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. > >>>>>>These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be > >>>>>>cultivated by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. > >>>>>>These are my beliefs. > >>>>>>Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that > >>>>>>Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only > >>>>>>exception that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and > >>>>>>others not sharing their belief and worshipping their god are > >>>>>>inherently evil. When, for example, a Christian says that his > >>>>>>religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified me as a > >>>>>>heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those > >>>>>>specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then > >>>>>>he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). > >>>>>>It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in > >>>>>>public, and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children > >>>>>>(and American soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his > >>>>>>counterparts in middle-eastern countries. > >>>>>>I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not > >>>>>>evil. But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d > >>>>>>appreciate it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of > >>>>>>definition, define me as the enemy. > >>>>>>Waterspider > >>>>>WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve > >>>>>known you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, > >>>>>I’ve considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel > >>>>>this way about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. > >>>>>My beliefs have always told me not to judge other people and to be > >>>>>forgiving of those that have done something to me, and this is what I > >>>>>strive to accomplish. I respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs > >>>>>of others here in this group. I wish we could all get together > >>>>>somewhere, I think we would find out that we could all get along > >>>>>together and we may even find that we like each other. I may be > >>>>>dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I just have a > >>>>>few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m praying > >>>>>for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good > >>>>>wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I > >>>>>promise it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it > >>>>>is not intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, > >>>>>our lives have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to > >>>>>fight than those with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s > >>>>>beliefs, no matter how hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe > >>>>>we can help someone get through this fight with the dragon a little > >>>>>easier. A kind word, a little knowledge, and a little compassion is > >>>>>much more beneficial than a lot of useless bickering. > >>>>>Thanks for your time. > >>>>Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches > >>>>that those who are not believers in their god are sinners and > >>>>heathens, and the Christian church member’s duty to his church is to > >>>>save the soul of the non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me > >>>>to be a heathen or you don’t follow the rules of your own god. > >>>>Waterspider > >>>>p.s. Either way, I still like you :) > >>>God said don’t judge and to forgive, I don’t care what the church says. > >>>Churches are man made and man is fallible. > >>And men (no women, btw) wrote the Bible, which is what you are > >>paraphrasing. God hasn’t *said* anything to anyone because he doesn’t > > exist. > >>Cody

Response:

Paul2 wrote: > Prove it Cody.

Prove what? > Like all things spiritual it takes FAITH……….Look up the meaning of > FAITH…

You mean *blind* faith. > Christians are men and women of FAITH.

Erm, *blind* faith. > Without FAITH it is impossible to comprehend GOD………..In ANY religion..

False. I have faith but it is based on actual proof, not blinding believing in a book that has be rewritten over the ages to suit the political needs of various popes. > You sir, are without FAITH, which doesn’t make you right or wrong, it just > makes it impossible for YOU to understand Christianity or any form of > Religion basing it’s beliefs on a un-seen God..

I do have faith, just not in a god that doesn’t exist. I believe in cause and effect and that one must take responsibility for one’s actions   and not expect some nebulous god to "forgive my sins". > But for me, it’s all too easy to believe in a loving creator….I just look > out my window and see God everyday..

Um, what you see is not god. > I hold my wife and think of my kids and KNOW there is a loving God whom I > call Father…

Your non existent god had nothing to do with the existence of your wife and kids. > I close my eyes, lay back on the bank of a river, the Sun on my face, the > birds singing, the tug on my fishing line, and I know there is a God……

LOL! What a stretch! > See, that is MY presupposition……..Everything stems from God……The > Loving Creator of this World…….. > Why does that offend you so Cody?

Because people like you who believe in a god that doesn’t exist have murdered millions in the god’s name, of course! > But……… > Your Crusade against Christianity must continue……I’m sorry for what ever > Christians have done to you in the past in the name of Jesus……..

It has nothing to do with my personal experiences. > But you have to let it go Cody………Bitterness and unforgiveness rot the > soul… > Merry Christmas > Paul2

I don’t celebrate Christmas, nor do I worship a dead, bloody body on a cross. Cody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message > news:05cof.122981$dr.98810@news.ono.com… >>Dwight wrote: >>>Waterspider wrote: >>>>"Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … >>>>>Waterspider wrote: >>>>>>Atheism teaches that… >>>>>>There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. >>>>>>Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and >>>>>>fools, or they will suffer and perish. >>>>>>There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must >>>>>>help man. >>>>>>There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good > behaviour. >>>>>>There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. >>>>>>There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the >>>>>>consequences of our acts. >>>>>>There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of >>>>>>every day, every minute of this one and only life. >>>>>>There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a >>>>>>struggle against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. >>>>>>The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for >>>>>>humankind. >>>>>>There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. >>>>>>These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be >>>>>>cultivated by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. >>>>>>These are my beliefs. >>>>>>Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that >>>>>>Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only >>>>>>exception that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and >>>>>>others not sharing their belief and worshipping their god are >>>>>>inherently evil. When, for example, a Christian says that his >>>>>>religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified me as a >>>>>>heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those >>>>>>specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then >>>>>>he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). >>>>>>It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in >>>>>>public, and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children >>>>>>(and American soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his >>>>>>counterparts in middle-eastern countries. >>>>>>I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not >>>>>>evil. But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d >>>>>>appreciate it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of >>>>>>definition, define me as the enemy. >>>>>>Waterspider >>>>>WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve >>>>>known you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, >>>>>I’ve considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel >>>>>this way about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. >>>>>My beliefs have always told me not to judge other people and to be >>>>>forgiving of those that have done something to me, and this is what I >>>>>strive to accomplish. I respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs >>>>>of others here in this group. I wish we could all get together >>>>>somewhere, I think we would find out that we could all get along >>>>>together and we may even find that we like each other. I may be >>>>>dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I just have a >>>>>few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m praying >>>>>for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good >>>>>wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I >>>>>promise it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it >>>>>is not intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, >>>>>our lives have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to >>>>>fight than those with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s >>>>>beliefs, no matter how hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe >>>>>we can help someone get through this fight with the dragon a little >>>>>easier. A kind word, a little knowledge, and a little compassion is >>>>>much more beneficial than a lot of useless bickering. >>>>>Thanks for your time. >>>>Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches >>>>that those who are not believers in their god are sinners and >>>>heathens, and the Christian church member’s duty to his church is to >>>>save the soul of the non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me >>>>to be a heathen or you don’t follow the rules of your own god. >>>>Waterspider >>>>p.s. Either way, I still like you :) >>>God said don’t judge and to forgive, I don’t care what the church says. >>>Churches are man made and man is fallible. >>And men (no women, btw) wrote the Bible, which is what you are >>paraphrasing. God hasn’t *said* anything to anyone because he doesn’t > exist. >>Cody

Response:

Prove it Cody. Like all things spiritual it takes FAITH……….Look up the meaning of FAITH… Christians are men and women of FAITH. Without FAITH it is impossible to comprehend GOD………..In ANY religion.. You sir, are without FAITH, which doesn’t make you right or wrong, it just makes it impossible for YOU to understand Christianity or any form of Religion basing it’s beliefs on a un-seen God.. But for me, it’s all too easy to believe in a loving creator….I just look out my window and see God everyday.. I hold my wife and think of my kids and KNOW there is a loving God whom I call Father… I close my eyes, lay back on the bank of a river, the Sun on my face, the birds singing, the tug on my fishing line, and I know there is a God…… See, that is MY presupposition……..Everything stems from God……The Loving Creator of this World…….. Why does that offend you so Cody? But……… Your Crusade against Christianity must continue……I’m sorry for what ever Christians have done to you in the past in the name of Jesus…….. But you have to let it go Cody………Bitterness and unforgiveness rot the soul… Merry Christmas Paul2 "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message

news:05cof.122981$dr.98810@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dwight wrote: > > Waterspider wrote: > >> "Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … > >>> Waterspider wrote: > >>>> Atheism teaches that… > >>>> There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. > >>>> Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and > >>>> fools, or they will suffer and perish. > >>>> There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must > >>>> help man. > >>>> There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good behaviour. > >>>> There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. > >>>> There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the > >>>> consequences of our acts. > >>>> There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of > >>>> every day, every minute of this one and only life. > >>>> There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a > >>>> struggle against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. > >>>> The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for > >>>> humankind. > >>>> There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. > >>>> These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be > >>>> cultivated by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. > >>>> These are my beliefs. > >>>> Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that > >>>> Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only > >>>> exception that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and > >>>> others not sharing their belief and worshipping their god are > >>>> inherently evil. When, for example, a Christian says that his > >>>> religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified me as a > >>>> heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those > >>>> specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then > >>>> he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). > >>>> It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in > >>>> public, and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children > >>>> (and American soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his > >>>> counterparts in middle-eastern countries. > >>>> I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not > >>>> evil. But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d > >>>> appreciate it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of > >>>> definition, define me as the enemy. > >>>> Waterspider > >>> WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve > >>> known you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, > >>> I’ve considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel > >>> this way about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. > >>> My beliefs have always told me not to judge other people and to be > >>> forgiving of those that have done something to me, and this is what I > >>> strive to accomplish. I respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs > >>> of others here in this group. I wish we could all get together > >>> somewhere, I think we would find out that we could all get along > >>> together and we may even find that we like each other. I may be > >>> dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I just have a > >>> few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m praying > >>> for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good > >>> wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I > >>> promise it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it > >>> is not intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, > >>> our lives have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to > >>> fight than those with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s > >>> beliefs, no matter how hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe > >>> we can help someone get through this fight with the dragon a little > >>> easier. A kind word, a little knowledge, and a little compassion is > >>> much more beneficial than a lot of useless bickering. > >>> Thanks for your time. > >> Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches > >> that those who are not believers in their god are sinners and > >> heathens, and the Christian church member’s duty to his church is to > >> save the soul of the non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me > >> to be a heathen or you don’t follow the rules of your own god. > >> Waterspider > >> p.s. Either way, I still like you :) > > God said don’t judge and to forgive, I don’t care what the church says. > > Churches are man made and man is fallible. > And men (no women, btw) wrote the Bible, which is what you are > paraphrasing. God hasn’t *said* anything to anyone because he doesn’t exist. > Cody

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dwight wrote: > Waterspider wrote: >> "Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … >>> Waterspider wrote: >>>> Atheism teaches that… >>>> There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. >>>> Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and >>>> fools, or they will suffer and perish. >>>> There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must >>>> help man. >>>> There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good behaviour. >>>> There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. >>>> There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the >>>> consequences of our acts. >>>> There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of >>>> every day, every minute of this one and only life. >>>> There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a >>>> struggle against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. >>>> The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for >>>> humankind. >>>> There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. >>>> These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be >>>> cultivated by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. >>>> These are my beliefs. >>>> Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that >>>> Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only >>>> exception that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and >>>> others not sharing their belief and worshipping their god are >>>> inherently evil. When, for example, a Christian says that his >>>> religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified me as a >>>> heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those >>>> specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then >>>> he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). >>>> It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in >>>> public, and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children >>>> (and American soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his >>>> counterparts in middle-eastern countries. >>>> I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not >>>> evil. But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d >>>> appreciate it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of >>>> definition, define me as the enemy. >>>> Waterspider >>> WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve >>> known you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, >>> I’ve considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel >>> this way about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. >>> My beliefs have always told me not to judge other people and to be >>> forgiving of those that have done something to me, and this is what I >>> strive to accomplish. I respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs >>> of others here in this group. I wish we could all get together >>> somewhere, I think we would find out that we could all get along >>> together and we may even find that we like each other. I may be >>> dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I just have a >>> few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m praying >>> for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good >>> wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I >>> promise it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it >>> is not intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, >>> our lives have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to >>> fight than those with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s >>> beliefs, no matter how hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe >>> we can help someone get through this fight with the dragon a little >>> easier. A kind word, a little knowledge, and a little compassion is >>> much more beneficial than a lot of useless bickering. >>> Thanks for your time. >> Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches >> that those who are not believers in their god are sinners and >> heathens, and the Christian church member’s duty to his church is to >> save the soul of the non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me >> to be a heathen or you don’t follow the rules of your own god. >> Waterspider >> p.s. Either way, I still like you :) > God said don’t judge and to forgive, I don’t care what the church says. > Churches are man made and man is fallible.

And men (no women, btw) wrote the Bible, which is what you are paraphrasing. God hasn’t *said* anything to anyone because he doesn’t exist. Cody

Response:

Atheism teaches that… There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and fools, or they will suffer and perish. There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must help man. There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good behaviour. There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the consequences of our acts. There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of every day, every minute of this one and only life. There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a struggle against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for humankind. There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be cultivated by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. These are my beliefs. Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only exception that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and others not sharing their belief and worshipping their god are inherently evil. When, for example, a Christian says that his religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified me as a heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in public, and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children (and American soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his counterparts in middle-eastern countries. I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not evil. But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d appreciate it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of definition, define me as the enemy. Waterspider

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waterspider wrote: > Atheism teaches that… > There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. > Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and fools, > or they will suffer and perish. > There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must help man. > There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good behaviour. > There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. > There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the consequences > of our acts. > There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of every > day, every minute of this one and only life. > There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a struggle > against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. > The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for humankind. > There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. These > are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be cultivated by example > rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. > These are my beliefs. > Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that > Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only exception that I > know of) teach that their belief is superior, and others not sharing their > belief and worshipping their god are inherently evil. When, for example, a > Christian says that his religion is the truth, I hear that he has identified > me as a heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he has not voiced those > specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to be saved, then he’s not > doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). > It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in public, > and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children (and American > soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his counterparts in > middle-eastern countries. > I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not evil. But, > here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d appreciate it if we > could discuss things that don’t, by nature of definition, define me as the > enemy. > Waterspider

WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve known you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, I’ve considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel this way about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. My beliefs have always told me not to judge other people and to be forgiving of those that have done something to me, and this is what I strive to accomplish. I respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs of others here in this group. I wish we could all get together somewhere, I think we would find out that we could all get along together and we may even find that we like each other. I may be dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I just have a few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m praying for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I promise it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it is not intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, our lives have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to fight than those with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s beliefs, no matter how hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe we can help someone get through this fight with the dragon a little easier. A kind word, a little knowledge, and a little compassion is much more beneficial than a lot of useless bickering. Thanks for your time. Dwight

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waterspider wrote: > "Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … >>Waterspider wrote: >>>Atheism teaches that… >>>There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. >>>Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and >>>fools, or they will suffer and perish. >>>There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must help >>>man. >>>There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good behaviour. >>>There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. >>>There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the >>>consequences of our acts. >>>There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of every >>>day, every minute of this one and only life. >>>There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a struggle >>>against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. >>>The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for humankind. >>>There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. >>>These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be cultivated >>>by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. >>>These are my beliefs. >>>Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that >>>Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only exception >>>that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and others not >>>sharing their belief and worshipping their god are inherently evil. When, >>>for example, a Christian says that his religion is the truth, I hear that >>>he has identified me as a heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he >>>has not voiced those specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to >>>be saved, then he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). >>>It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in public, >>>and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children (and American >>>soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his counterparts in >>>middle-eastern countries. >>>I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not evil. >>>But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d appreciate >>>it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of definition, define >>>me as the enemy. >>>Waterspider >>WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve known >>you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, I’ve >>considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel this way >>about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. My beliefs have >>always told me not to judge other people and to be forgiving of those that >>have done something to me, and this is what I strive to accomplish. I >>respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs of others here in this group. >>I wish we could all get together somewhere, I think we would find out that >>we could all get along together and we may even find that we like each >>other. I may be dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I >>just have a few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m >>praying for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good >>wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I promise >>it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it is not >>intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, our lives >>have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to fight than those >>with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s beliefs, no matter how >>hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe we can help someone get >>through this fight with the dragon a little easier. A kind word, a little >>knowledge, and a little compassion is much more beneficial than a lot of >>useless bickering. >>Thanks for your time. > Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches that > those who are not believers in their god are sinners and heathens, and the > Christian church member’s duty to his church is to save the soul of the > non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me to be a heathen or you don’t > follow the rules of your own god. > Waterspider > p.s. Either way, I still like you :)

God said don’t judge and to forgive, I don’t care what the church says. Churches are man made and man is fallible. As far as being sinners, we all are. And as for converting people to Christianity, if someone is looking to change their beliefs I will tell them about mine, but I won’t try to force my beliefs on others, just as I won’t tolerate someone trying to change mine. I guess I’m just stubborn in a pacifist sort of way. At least until I start the Riba again. :) Dwight p.s. Thanks WS for letting me say what I believe. This is about the extent of my religious debating. I’m old enough to know that changing a persons beliefs is not done by arguing and therefore find most of the posts going on right now pointless.

Response:

"Dwight" <m…@notreal.net> wrote … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Waterspider wrote: >> Atheism teaches that… >> There is no heavenly father, no supreme being, no all-powerful diety. >> Humankind must protect the orphans, foundlings, cripples, drunks and >> fools, or they will suffer and perish. >> There is no god to answer prayer. Man must hear man, and man must help >> man. >> There is no hell to fear; there is no heaven to reward good behaviour. >> There is no vindictive god or devil to fear or imitate. >> There is no atonement or salvation by faith; we must face the >> consequences of our acts. >> There is no afterlife; thus the importance, beauty and potential of every >> day, every minute of this one and only life. >> There is no beneficent or malevolent intent in nature. Life is a struggle >> against preventable and upreventable, natural occurances. >> The cooperation of humankind is the only hope for society, for humankind. >> There is no divine guardian of truth, goodness, beauty, and liberty. >> These are attributes of humankind to be cherished, and to be cultivated >> by example rather than fearmongering and rhetoric. >> These are my beliefs. >> Why I get involved in religious discussions on this board is that >> Christianity and most other religions (Buddhism is the only exception >> that I know of) teach that their belief is superior, and others not >> sharing their belief and worshipping their god are inherently evil. When, >> for example, a Christian says that his religion is the truth, I hear that >> he has identified me as a heretic, a sinner, an evil one even though he >> has not voiced those specific words (if he doesn’t see me as a sinner to >> be saved, then he’s not doing God’s work and he’s not a good Christian). >> It’s not that long ago that Christians burned witches to death in public, >> and today George Bush is slaughtering women and children (and American >> soldier boys) in the name of his god, just like his counterparts in >> middle-eastern countries. >> I am not trying to be difficult, or disrespectful, and I am not evil. >> But, here on ash-c, it’s just you and me and hepatitis c. I’d appreciate >> it if we could discuss things that don’t, by nature of definition, define >> me as the enemy. >> Waterspider > WS, I’m a Christian and for the last two to three years that I’ve known > you I have never considered you to be evil. On the contrary, I’ve > considered you a friend that I just haven’t met yet. I also feel this way > about most of the people here, I’ve just known you longer. My beliefs have > always told me not to judge other people and to be forgiving of those that > have done something to me, and this is what I strive to accomplish. I > respect your beliefs as well as the beliefs of others here in this group. > I wish we could all get together somewhere, I think we would find out that > we could all get along together and we may even find that we like each > other. I may be dreaming, but its my dream so let me run with it. :) I > just have a few last things to say. I have and will continue to say "I’m > praying for you". If you don’t believe in prayer then accept it as a good > wish. If you think I’m wasting my time, its my time to waste and I promise > it won’t hurt you. If it offends you in any way I’m sorry, it is not > intended to be offensive. All of us have something in common, our lives > have been affected by hep-c, we have better battles to fight than those > with each other. We aren’t going to change anyone’s beliefs, no matter how > hard we try or how long we protest, but maybe we can help someone get > through this fight with the dragon a little easier. A kind word, a little > knowledge, and a little compassion is much more beneficial than a lot of > useless bickering. > Thanks for your time.

Sorry Dwight, perhaps I wasn’t clear. The Christian church teaches that those who are not believers in their god are sinners and heathens, and the Christian church member’s duty to his church is to save the soul of the non-believer. Ipso facto, you either believe me to be a heathen or you don’t follow the rules of your own god. Waterspider p.s. Either way, I still like you :)

Response:

Don't smoke your bibles, don't lose your wits

Question:

Would you be willing to send me your e-mail address? You and I have MUCH in common and I’d like to correspond with about some things if you’re Ok with that! Ray "Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message

news:eYSdndl-0_12zAnenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@rogers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother > just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we > depart this life for the other is our Character. > Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of > pressure, over a long period of time. > I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were told > that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you are > written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they > decided to come through EGermany… > Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac wasn’t > a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no pat on the > back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for years..Its one > thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a Country… > Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot in > life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers have > left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, hardships, and > even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… > I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind > was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, just > standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly they > took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the strong > headwind lifted them up… > We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the face > of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. > Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. > Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. > We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff out > your love and hope. > The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight > the good fight!! > Paul2 > "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >> Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >> out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >> complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it >> is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m >> suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t >> failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and >> toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was >> drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty >> looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the >> neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics >> next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to >> freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the >> local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did >> my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t >> deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin >> shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and >> Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr >> peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It >> was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the >> choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with >> fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck >> to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a Christian. >> Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t send me to >> hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could get the >> advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, Aids, bird >> flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the United >> Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, >> can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that Louie >> Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut him up. >> Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >> more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >> work just like "Bamboo’s…. >> Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >> trazadone…..Nighty night…. >> Bobby

Response:

Cody, did I say everyone believed in "my" God? What gives you the right to tell me to keep my opinions out of this forum? You dont look like McCarthy. Back off Cody, you’re wrong on this one. Paul2 "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message

news:xQYkf.118014$dr.6432@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please leave your non existant god out of the discussions. I am really > trying to be nice here but you are tempting me … not everyone believes > in your Christian god, you know. > Cody > Paul2 wrote: >> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >> just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we >> depart this life for the other is our Character. >> Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of >> pressure, over a long period of time. >> I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were >> told that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you >> are written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they >> decided to come through EGermany… >> Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac >> wasn’t a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no >> pat on the back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for >> years..Its one thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a >> Country… >> Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot >> in life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers >> have left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, >> hardships, and even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… >> I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind >> was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, >> just standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly >> they took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the >> strong headwind lifted them up… >> We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the >> face of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. >> Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. >> Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. >> We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff >> out your love and hope. >> The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight >> the good fight!! >> Paul2 >> "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >>>Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >>>out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >>>complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it >>>is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m >>>suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t >>>failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and >>>toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was >>>drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty >>>looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the >>>neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics >>>next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to >>>freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the >>>local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did >>>my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t >>>deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin >>>shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and >>>Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr >>>peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It >>>was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the >>>choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with >>>fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck >>>to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a Christian. >>>Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t send me to >>>hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could get the >>>advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, Aids, bird >>>flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the United >>>Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, >>>can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that Louie >>>Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut him up. >>>Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >>>more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >>>work just like "Bamboo’s…. >>>Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >>>trazadone…..Nighty night…. >>>Bobby

Response:

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 23:50:25 -0800, "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonlight.net>, in message ID <11pagm1ta59a…@corp.supernews.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >I don’t believe in God for the same reasons I don’t believe in Santa Clause, >the Easter Bunny and the angel lady on the cloud in the Philladelphia Cream >Cheese commercial. There is simply no evidence that there is a god, heaven, >hell, afterlife or whichever way you want to go with it. It is simply >mythology. Personally, I thought the pre-Christian gods were far more >interesting :)

To take it a stage further, if there were cast iron evidence of the existence god (as in omnipotent being), perhaps there would be no need for faith (this is starting to sound like that Hitchhiker’s Guide logic).  :-) — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

Response:

Paul2 wrote: > Great Cody, have you been to the zoo lately and said hi to your ancestors?

So, this means you have blind faith in intelligent design too? > Sorry, just had to…

Well, aren’t you the cute and clever one. > Peace, shalom, good fortune, whatever… > Paul2

So, I take it that because you cannot do anything but hurl an ad hominem attack that you cede the debate and accept the fact that god doesn’t exist? Cody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message > news:Ix5lf.118428$dr.32507@news.ono.com… >>Paul2 wrote: >>>Cody: I respect your right to "believe" what you want…Why can’t you do >>>the same? If saying there is "no" God isn’t preaching, I don’t know what >>>is(according to your criteria of preaching) >>You brought it up. >>>Believing that there isn’t a God(you can’t prove that theory)takes >>>faith…………faith is believing in something you can’t see, touch, >>>feel, or prove………Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the >>>evidence of things yet seen" >>I am familiar with blind faith. It’s rampant. People kill because of it. >>It’s disgusting. >>>Saying there is "no" God is a statement of Faith, therefore as much a >>>dogmatic stance as any Christian views you want to accuse us of. >>Yes, a statement of faith based on actual proof, not some theory. I also >>believe the world is not flat and that pigs don’t have wings. Your point? >>>Cody, honestly, God isn’t to blame for what ever bitterness and rage you >>>are feeling toward Christianity. >>Of course not, there is no god. >>>God is perfect, people aren’t. >>Tell that to the god fearing people in New Orleans, Texas and Mississipi. >>God is perfectly non existant. >>Cody >>>Paul2 >>>"Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message >>>news:TTYkf.118015$dr.90008@news.ono.com… >>>>Paul2 wrote: >>>>>What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >>>>>just stating a biblical fact. >>>>LOL. The Bible has no facts, just lies. And, you just lied, you *are* >>>>preaching. >>>>There is no evidence that believing in a non existant god like the one >>>>the Christian Church uses to control people provides any cure for Hep C >>>>so please stop your preaching. >>>>Thanks, >>>>Cody

Response:

"Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote > > Believing that there isn’t a God(you can’t prove that theory)takes > faith…………faith is believing in something you can’t see, touch, > feel, or prove………Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the > evidence of things yet seen" > Saying there is "no" God is a statement of Faith, therefore as much a > dogmatic stance as any Christian views you want to accuse us of.

I don’t believe in God for the same reasons I don’t believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and the angel lady on the cloud in the Philladelphia Cream Cheese commercial. There is simply no evidence that there is a god, heaven, hell, afterlife or whichever way you want to go with it. It is simply mythology. Personally, I thought the pre-Christian gods were far more interesting :) Waterspider

Response:

"Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message

news:wcOdncBArMKHawnenZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@rogers.com… > Great Cody, have you been to the zoo lately and said hi to your ancestors? > Sorry, just had to…

Perhaps the Christian religion would be more tolerant if it acknowledged that we *all* have the same ancestors. Sorry, just had to… <evil grin> Waterspider

Response:

"Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message

news:eYSdndl-0_12zAnenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@rogers.com… > What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother > just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we > depart this life for the other is our Character. > Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of > pressure, over a long period of time.

Good sentiment, Paul, but I see things a little differently. Bobby, are you reading this? Your situation has nothing to do with God or religion. It’s just a bitch of a place to find yourself after you’ve done nothing wrong in your life… life’s not been kind to you and there ain’t no great reward on the other side of the rainbow. But I think I know you well enough to say that you get pleasure out of many things in life, especially music and people and better yet if the two are combined. That’s your joy. And you’re obviously one tough motherfucker too, and that’s how you handle the pain and the grief and the craziness that is most of the rest of the world. But don’t waste your time looking for strength up in the sky cuz it’s not there. It’s right inside you. You are the source of the strength and the happiness and the joy, not only for yourself but I’ll bet you give a lot of all three to those who you spend time with. That’s what it’s all about, bud, and it’s all in how you look at it. You’re only here once, and you make of it what you make of it. You’re a long time dead. All the best to you, Bobby. Now roll a nice blend and listen to some good tunes (but don’t smoke your bible!). There will be good things in today, but you might miss them if you dwell on things you can’t change. Waterspider

Response:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:19:25 +0100, Michael Cody <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote: >Paul2 wrote: >> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother just >> stating a biblical fact. >LOL. The Bible has no facts, just lies. And, you just lied, you *are* >preaching. >There is no evidence that believing in a non existant god like the one >the Christian Church uses to control people provides any cure for Hep C >so please stop your preaching. >Thanks, >Cody

Cody….Everyone needs someone or something to lean on to get them through hard times. Let it be. Please. /greyhackles

Response:

I posted this before but didn’t do it right. This message is for Paul2. Would you be willing to send me your e-mail address? You and I have MUCH in common and I’d like to correspond with about some things if you’re Ok with that! Ray "Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message

news:eYSdndl-0_12zAnenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@rogers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother > just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we > depart this life for the other is our Character. > Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of > pressure, over a long period of time. > I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were told > that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you are > written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they > decided to come through EGermany… > Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac wasn’t > a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no pat on the > back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for years..Its one > thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a Country… > Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot in > life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers have > left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, hardships, and > even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… > I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind > was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, just > standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly they > took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the strong > headwind lifted them up… > We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the face > of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. > Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. > Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. > We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff out > your love and hope. > The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight > the good fight!! > Paul2 > "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >> Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >> out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >> complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it >> is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m >> suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t >> failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and >> toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was >> drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty >> looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the >> neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics >> next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to >> freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the >> local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did >> my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t >> deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin >> shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and >> Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr >> peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It >> was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the >> choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with >> fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck >> to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a Christian. >> Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t send me to >> hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could get the >> advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, Aids, bird >> flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the United >> Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, >> can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that Louie >> Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut him up. >> Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >> more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >> work just like "Bamboo’s…. >> Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >> trazadone…..Nighty night…. >> Bobby

Response:

.cwk is an extension for Clarisworks aka Appleworks.   There are some shareware programs for the PC to read them, icWord looks like on (at the end of this page…) http://www.topshareware.com/005-1-11.htm In article <cG1lf.12836$5V1.10993@trnddc02>, "Shawn" <m…@privacy.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Cody, Hmmm by the way, do you know of any file converter that will > convert *.cwk files into *.jpg files? My little sister has a Mac and just > sent me some photos of her new house. They came in cwk format. I’ve never > heard of that. But, have never even sat down at a Mac. So, I’m clueless. Any > help would be appreciated! Thanks again.

Response:

"Thip" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.1dfe591bbcf7d7f8989680@news.individual.net… > In article <xQYkf.118014$dr.6…@news.ono.com>, nos…@nuncaspam.comorg > says… > |Please leave your non existant god out of the discussions. I am really > |trying to be nice here but you are tempting me … not everyone believes > |in your Christian god, you know. > |Cody > Hey Cody, we weren’t too awful when you were doing your daily Buddhist > posting.  I think this is a great time to agree to disagree and ignore > the posts that offend you personally, ‘k?

I recall Cody getting more than a few flames about the Daily Messages (I think one even came from me), and in all fairness he didn’t bring up the religious thread. I don’t think that we should have to ignore posts that offend us, any of us, for any reason. The trick is to confine it to the thread and not let the discussion degrade to shit-flinging. <g> WS

Response:

Paul2 wrote: > Cody: I respect your right to "believe" what you want…Why can’t you do the > same? If saying there is "no" God isn’t preaching, I don’t know what > is(according to your criteria of preaching)

You brought it up. > Believing that there isn’t a God(you can’t prove that theory)takes > faith…………faith is believing in something you can’t see, touch, feel, > or prove………Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of > things yet seen"

I am familiar with blind faith. It’s rampant. People kill because of it. It’s disgusting. > Saying there is "no" God is a statement of Faith, therefore as much a > dogmatic stance as any Christian views you want to accuse us of.

Yes, a statement of faith based on actual proof, not some theory. I also believe the world is not flat and that pigs don’t have wings. Your point? > Cody, honestly, God isn’t to blame for what ever bitterness and rage you are > feeling toward Christianity.

Of course not, there is no god. > God is perfect, people aren’t.

Tell that to the god fearing people in New Orleans, Texas and Mississipi. God is perfectly non existant. Cody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul2 > "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message > news:TTYkf.118015$dr.90008@news.ono.com… >>Paul2 wrote: >>>What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >>>just stating a biblical fact. >>LOL. The Bible has no facts, just lies. And, you just lied, you *are* >>preaching. >>There is no evidence that believing in a non existant god like the one the >>Christian Church uses to control people provides any cure for Hep C so >>please stop your preaching. >>Thanks, >>Cody

Response:

Great Cody, have you been to the zoo lately and said hi to your ancestors? Sorry, just had to… Peace, shalom, good fortune, whatever… Paul2 "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message

news:Ix5lf.118428$dr.32507@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul2 wrote: >> Cody: I respect your right to "believe" what you want…Why can’t you do >> the same? If saying there is "no" God isn’t preaching, I don’t know what >> is(according to your criteria of preaching) > You brought it up. >> Believing that there isn’t a God(you can’t prove that theory)takes >> faith…………faith is believing in something you can’t see, touch, >> feel, or prove………Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the >> evidence of things yet seen" > I am familiar with blind faith. It’s rampant. People kill because of it. > It’s disgusting. >> Saying there is "no" God is a statement of Faith, therefore as much a >> dogmatic stance as any Christian views you want to accuse us of. > Yes, a statement of faith based on actual proof, not some theory. I also > believe the world is not flat and that pigs don’t have wings. Your point? >> Cody, honestly, God isn’t to blame for what ever bitterness and rage you >> are feeling toward Christianity. > Of course not, there is no god. >> God is perfect, people aren’t. > Tell that to the god fearing people in New Orleans, Texas and Mississipi. > God is perfectly non existant. > Cody >> Paul2 >> "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message >> news:TTYkf.118015$dr.90008@news.ono.com… >>>Paul2 wrote: >>>>What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >>>>just stating a biblical fact. >>>LOL. The Bible has no facts, just lies. And, you just lied, you *are* >>>preaching. >>>There is no evidence that believing in a non existant god like the one >>>the Christian Church uses to control people provides any cure for Hep C >>>so please stop your preaching. >>>Thanks, >>>Cody

Response:

Cody: I respect your right to "believe" what you want…Why can’t you do the same? If saying there is "no" God isn’t preaching, I don’t know what is(according to your criteria of preaching) Believing that there isn’t a God(you can’t prove that theory)takes faith…………faith is believing in something you can’t see, touch, feel, or prove………Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things yet seen" Saying there is "no" God is a statement of Faith, therefore as much a dogmatic stance as any Christian views you want to accuse us of. Cody, honestly, God isn’t to blame for what ever bitterness and rage you are feeling toward Christianity. God is perfect, people aren’t. Paul2 "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message

news:TTYkf.118015$dr.90008@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul2 wrote: >> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >> just stating a biblical fact. > LOL. The Bible has no facts, just lies. And, you just lied, you *are* > preaching. > There is no evidence that believing in a non existant god like the one the > Christian Church uses to control people provides any cure for Hep C so > please stop your preaching. > Thanks, > Cody

Response:

Shawn wrote: > Thanks Cody, Hmmm by the way, do you know of any file converter that will > convert *.cwk files into *.jpg files? My little sister has a Mac and just > sent me some photos of her new house. They came in cwk format. I’ve never > heard of that. But, have never even sat down at a Mac. So, I’m clueless. Any > help would be appreciated! Thanks again.

No, sorry. I haven’t fooled with a MAC since 1985. Then I went to an IBM 286. I believe, however, that she can save her scans in .jpg format with a MAC. Cody

Response:

Paul2 wrote: > Cody, did I say everyone believed in "my" God? What gives you the right to > tell me to keep my opinions out of this forum? > You dont look like McCarthy. > Back off Cody, you’re wrong on this one.

You don’t know the history. Posting things like "bibilical fact" is almost as ludicrous and insults the intelligence as much as the Intelligent Design/Adam and Eve theory. You really don’t want to get me started on this. As you say, however, you are free to post anything you want — and so am I. Cody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Paul2 > "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message > news:xQYkf.118014$dr.6432@news.ono.com… >>Please leave your non existant god out of the discussions. I am really >>trying to be nice here but you are tempting me … not everyone believes >>in your Christian god, you know. >>Cody >>Paul2 wrote: >>>What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >>>just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we >>>depart this life for the other is our Character. >>>Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of >>>pressure, over a long period of time. >>>I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were >>>told that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you >>>are written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they >>>decided to come through EGermany… >>>Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac >>>wasn’t a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no >>>pat on the back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for >>>years..Its one thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a >>>Country… >>>Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot >>>in life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers >>>have left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, >>>hardships, and even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… >>>I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind >>>was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, >>>just standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly >>>they took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the >>>strong headwind lifted them up… >>>We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the >>>face of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. >>>Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. >>>Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. >>>We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff >>>out your love and hope. >>>The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight >>>the good fight!! >>>Paul2 >>>"Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >>>>Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >>>>out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >>>>complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it >>>>is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m >>>>suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t >>>>failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and >>>>toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was >>>>drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty >>>>looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the >>>>neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics >>>>next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to >>>>freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the >>>>local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did >>>>my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t >>>>deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin >>>>shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and >>>>Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr >>>>peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It >>>>was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the >>>>choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with >>>>fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck >>>>to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a Christian. >>>>Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t send me to >>>>hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could get the >>>>advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, Aids, bird >>>>flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the United >>>>Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, >>>>can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that Louie >>>>Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut him up. >>>>Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >>>>more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >>>>work just like "Bamboo’s…. >>>>Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >>>>trazadone…..Nighty night…. >>>>Bobby

Response:

Thanks Cody, Hmmm by the way, do you know of any file converter that will convert *.cwk files into *.jpg files? My little sister has a Mac and just sent me some photos of her new house. They came in cwk format. I’ve never heard of that. But, have never even sat down at a Mac. So, I’m clueless. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks again. — Shawn (use the "reply feature on your browser to send a private reply via E-Mail.) "Michael Cody" <nos…@nuncaspam.comorg> wrote in message

news:xQYkf.118014$dr.6432@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please leave your non existant god out of the discussions. I am really > trying to be nice here but you are tempting me … not everyone believes > in your Christian god, you know. > Cody > Paul2 wrote: >> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >> just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we >> depart this life for the other is our Character. >> Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of >> pressure, over a long period of time. >> I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were >> told that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you >> are written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they >> decided to come through EGermany… >> Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac >> wasn’t a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no >> pat on the back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for >> years..Its one thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a >> Country… >> Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot >> in life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers >> have left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, >> hardships, and even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… >> I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind >> was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, >> just standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly >> they took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the >> strong headwind lifted them up… >> We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the >> face of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. >> Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. >> Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. >> We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff >> out your love and hope. >> The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight >> the good fight!! >> Paul2 >> "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >>>Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >>>out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >>>complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it >>>is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m >>>suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t >>>failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and >>>toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was >>>drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty >>>looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the >>>neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics >>>next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to >>>freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the >>>local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did >>>my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t >>>deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin >>>shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and >>>Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr >>>peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It >>>was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the >>>choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with >>>fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck >>>to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a Christian. >>>Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t send me to >>>hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could get the >>>advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, Aids, bird >>>flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the United >>>Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, >>>can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that Louie >>>Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut him up. >>>Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >>>more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >>>work just like "Bamboo’s…. >>>Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >>>trazadone…..Nighty night…. >>>Bobby

Response:

as a matter of a fact would you religious cats and dogs please remove this chat to someother flame site or e-mail ring? this religious dueling is far from topical and very frowned upon by most, these days this is a chronic illness support group. thank you and good day by Godesses’ Grace cactus jammies  ——————– 8 Cups full trying hard to get my ashes hauled to some other place /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////// "Ray" <netne…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:%r0lf.2122$xg1.1809@trnddc03… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Would you be willing to send me your e-mail address? You and I have MUCH > in common and I’d like to correspond with about some things if you’re Ok > with that! > Ray > "Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message > news:eYSdndl-0_12zAnenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@rogers.com… >> What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother >> just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we >> depart this life for the other is our Character. >> Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of >> pressure, over a long period of time. >> I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were >> told that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you >> are written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they >> decided to come through EGermany… >> Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac >> wasn’t a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no >> pat on the back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for >> years..Its one thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a >> Country… >> Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot >> in life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers >> have left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, >> hardships, and even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… >> I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind >> was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, >> just standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly >> they took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the >> strong headwind lifted them up… >> We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the >> face of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. >> Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. >> Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. >> We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff >> out your love and hope. >> The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight >> the good fight!! >> Paul2 >> "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >>> Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >>> out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >>> complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it >>> is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m >>> suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t >>> failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and >>> toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was >>> drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty >>> looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the >>> neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics >>> next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to >>> freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the >>> local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did >>> my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t >>> deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin >>> shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and >>> Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr >>> peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It >>> was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the >>> choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with >>> fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck >>> to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a >>> Christian. Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t >>> send me to hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could >>> get the advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, >>> Aids, bird flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the >>> United Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and >>> Tarzan, can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that >>> Louie Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut >>> him up. >>> Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >>> more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >>> work just like "Bamboo’s…. >>> Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >>> trazadone…..Nighty night…. >>> Bobby

Response:

Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it is, Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m suddenly developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t failed me yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and toes are tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was drinking like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty looking skin mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the neouro-lymes treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics next month. LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to freely give Pcr’s so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the local community health care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did my paper work wrong 3 years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t deserve, (Seven fuckin years, 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin shovelheads from developing nukes and headin south for fresh rice and Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t deserving and also by the way Mr peckerwood, you owe US for all the visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your bible. don’t lose your wits, the choppers filled with your gut-shot friends and your heart is filled with fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing its another. We are livin paycheck to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m so fuckin happy to be a Christian. Can’t wait to see what HE has in store for me next…Can’t send me to hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no more, maybe I could get the advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour a few nations, Aids, bird flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call myself the United Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh my God, is that Louie Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick so’s I can shut him up. Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages work just like "Bamboo’s…. Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of trazadone…..Nighty night…. Bobby

Response:

What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we depart this life for the other is our Character. Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of pressure, over a long period of time. I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were told that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you are written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they decided to come through EGermany… Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac wasn’t a good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no pat on the back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for years..Its one thing to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a Country… Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot in life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers have left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, hardships, and even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind was howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, just standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly they took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the strong headwind lifted them up… We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the face of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff out your love and hope. The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight the good fight!! Paul2 "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him > out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very > complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it is, > Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m suddenly > developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t failed me > yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and toes are > tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was drinking > like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty looking skin > mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the neouro-lymes > treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics next month. > LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to freely give Pcr’s > so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the local community health > care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did my paper work wrong 3 > years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t deserve, (Seven fuckin years, > 17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin shovelheads from developing nukes > and headin south for fresh rice and Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t > deserving and also by the way Mr peckerwood, you owe US for all the > visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your > bible. don’t lose your wits, the choppers filled with your gut-shot > friends and your heart is filled with fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing > its another. We are livin paycheck to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m > so fuckin happy to be a Christian. Can’t wait to see what HE has in store > for me next…Can’t send me to hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no > more, maybe I could get the advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour > a few nations, Aids, bird flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call > myself the United Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a > bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh > my God, is that Louie Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick > so’s I can shut him up. > Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no > more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages > work just like "Bamboo’s…. > Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of > trazadone…..Nighty night…. > Bobby

Response:

Please leave your non existant god out of the discussions. I am really trying to be nice here but you are tempting me … not everyone believes in your Christian god, you know. Cody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paul2 wrote: > What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother just > stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we depart this > life for the other is our Character. > Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of pressure, > over a long period of time. > I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were told > that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you are > written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they > decided to come through EGermany… > Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac wasn’t a > good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no pat on the > back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for years..Its one thing > to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a Country… > Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot in > life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers have > left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, hardships, and > even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… > I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind was > howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, just > standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly they > took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the strong > headwind lifted them up… > We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the face > of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. > Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. > Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. > We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff out > your love and hope. > The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight the > good fight!! > Paul2 > "Bobby" <bob0…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:1mXkf.111$Z61.94@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… >>Hey now, when the devil comes a knockin at your door, ya gotta stamp him >>out, and put him back down in the hole. Life has been gettin’ very >>complicated lately. Somethings happening here and I don’t know what it is, >>Probably stress and hep, a great combo to an early demise. I’m suddenly >>developing liver spots, like over nite, my feets which haven’t failed me >>yet, are cold all the time, can’t get em warm and fingers and toes are >>tingling and numb. Things were like this back in 83 but I was drinking >>like mad and shooting dope like a major. Also got some nasty looking skin >>mutations on my legs….My wife is stuggling through the neouro-lymes >>treatment and may be going on IV feed for the anti biotics next month. >>LAst count at the docs was norm, but VA doesn’t like to freely give Pcr’s >>so I may take myself and Abenaki Artie down to the local community health >>care for testing with medicare card. The VA, did my paper work wrong 3 >>years ago, gave me bene’s they say I didn’t deserve, (Seven fuckin years, >>17 months on the dmz, keepin the friggin shovelheads from developing nukes >>and headin south for fresh rice and Kimchea) and they tell me I ain’t >>deserving and also by the way Mr peckerwood, you owe US for all the >>visits, endoscopy’s etc, although It was our mistake…."Don’t smoke your >>bible. don’t lose your wits, the choppers filled with your gut-shot >>friends and your heart is filled with fear"…..Well if it ain’t one thing >>its another. We are livin paycheck to paycheck, thats ssdi folks, and I’m >>so fuckin happy to be a Christian. Can’t wait to see what HE has in store >>for me next…Can’t send me to hell, its use less. Can’t get scared no >>more, maybe I could get the advocates job….Go over to Afrika and devour >>a few nations, Aids, bird flu, massacre’s, children with guns….I’ll call >>myself the United Nations…..Ho HO HO, Ho de door, I’m takin a >>bribe….Zulu’s and Tarzan, can get it all on tape and get an Oskar…Oh >>my God, is that Louie Armstong singing? Quick somebody give me a brick >>so’s I can shut him up. >>Ami I Ramblin, well sorry, my brains shot too, can’t even read a book no >>more, But i got one of them Gidgeon bibles, pocket size, and the pages >>work just like "Bamboo’s…. >>Time for my lithium, think I’ll smooth em out tonight with a bit of >>trazadone…..Nighty night…. >>Bobby

Response:

In article <xQYkf.118014$dr.6…@news.ono.com>, nos…@nuncaspam.comorg says… |Please leave your non existant god out of the discussions. I am really |trying to be nice here but you are tempting me … not everyone believes |in your Christian god, you know. | |Cody Hey Cody, we weren’t too awful when you were doing your daily Buddhist posting.  I think this is a great time to agree to disagree and ignore the posts that offend you personally, ‘k?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paul2 wrote: > What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother just > stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we depart this > life for the other is our Character. > Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of pressure, > over a long period of time. > I served my country also during the cold war over in Germany. We were told > that we were the free world’s first line of defence..and as such you are > written off within minutes of engaging the Red Horde when and if they > decided to come through EGermany… > Well, they decided 7 years into my service that being a hemophiliac wasn’t a > good thing for a soldier…so I got the boot…no pension, no pat on the > back, nothing. I dealt with the bitterness of that for years..Its one thing > to be betrayed by a friend, and another by a Country… > Anyway, I’m a Christian and have struggled many, many, days over my lot in > life…But if you’re serious about the legacy our Christian brothers have > left us over the years then you have to know that pressure, hardships, and > even martydom are all part of the Cbristian experience… > I was watching a bunch of seagulls one day down by our lake….The wind was > howling of the bay and all the segulls were facing into the wind, just > standing there. I watch for a bit and made note of how effortlessly they > took off in flight. All they had to do was open their wings and the strong > headwind lifted them up… > We have to do the same with our hard circumstances. If we turn in the face > of strong winds all that does is ruffle our feathers. > Lets face the strong wind and rise above it. > Jesus knows I’m not preaching at you, this is as much for me as anyone. > We need Him, but we need each other as well. Don’t let the enemy snuff out > your love and hope. > The real war is in the spiritual realm anyway…Soldier on mate!!! Fight the > good fight!! > Paul2

As much as it bothers others here, I think you made a very supportive and encouraging response to Bobby, the way you know how. I appreciate the words also…………………….eileen

Response:

"Paul2" <emperor…@nospam.rogers.com> wrote in message

news:eYSdndl-0_12zAnenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@rogers.com… > What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother > just stating a biblical fact. All that remains of who we are when we > depart this life for the other is our Character. > Character like diamonds can only come forth after huge amounts of > pressure, over a long period of time.

Thank You for that great reply Paul2. Fight the good fight my friend. Scott

Response:

Paul2 wrote: > What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger. Ain’t preaching at ya brother just > stating a biblical fact.

LOL. The Bible has no facts, just lies. And, you just lied, you *are* preaching. There is no evidence that believing in a non existant god like the one the Christian Church uses to control people provides any cure for Hep C so please stop your preaching. Thanks, Cody

Response:

The final secret

Question:

"Used2be" <used…@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:Jtr8f.25142$Bf7.2604@tornado.texas.rr.com… > "PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote… > pisa crumb cake???

pisa mangia cake

Response:

Tower of Pisa.  My middle name is Eileen.  Ar Ar Ar. "marasu" <mar…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:1130513629.255353.309920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> "PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote… > Used2be wrote: >> pisa crumb cake? > leaning layers of pisa cake?

Response:

"Used2be" <used…@nowhere.com> wrote don’t you guys remember the rabbi "pisa cake" skits from saturday night live??? oh, dat’s a gonna be a pisa cake.  <g> and then he did a little bit in the kids movie Casper (i LOVED that movie) where he was trying to convince the people that he could remove the ghosts from the haunted mansion and he says, "oh dat’s a gonna be a pisa cake…a pisa crumb cake." i love that guy…

Response:

Try to get your judgement and expectation out of the view screen you are looking at Ilya.  The defense structure creates all that happens to you for your own entertainment.  The defense structure seeks to heal you, your childhood, your family, your future, your nation and the world … the defense structure made you who you are today … a survivor … working recovery. So put love into where all the judgement and expectation you have inside and see it as all good … the defense structure is all good and what it does is good.  This is why you love who you love and get in to the shit that you do with relationships … its all about love. Not the hate, the fear, the judgement expectation that makes criticism and shame. Love dont do those things. Good luck in changing the emotional bathwater and keeping the baby. Its a simple process that hurts like hell. sumbuddie on da watchtower in article 1130512204.156395.300…@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Ilya the Bat at ibshambat2…@hotmail.com wrote on 10/28/05 7:10 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being.

Response:

"hell_is_others" <tmozzare…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1130512675.489875.181980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… > Ilya the Bat wrote: > a whole lot of pretentious, bloviating bullshit that is as incoherent as > ever. > Those who speak don’t know. > Those who know don’t speak. > The Tao

See how easy that was?

Response:

hell_is_others wrote: > Those who speak don’t know. > Those who know don’t speak.

So what are you waiting for? Become a tree, and know!

Response:

> "PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote… Used2be wrote: > pisa crumb cake?

leaning layers of pisa cake?

Response:

"PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote…

pisa crumb cake???

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ilya the Bat wrote: > The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being. > The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns, > and simple-minded worldviews – whether of Protestant nature or of > "realist" nature – the likes of which have been inexplicably and > overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are > simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple > outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly > glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation, > or else one’s view be dishonest – and, as a result, barbaric and > malicious. > Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was > based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were > part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and > their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for > the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much > true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for > psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other > paths. > The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness > with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality > beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual > is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the > enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by > the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for > one’s fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to > the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as > well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations > where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous > lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself > for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice > either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to > simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state > of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower > states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in > order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what > is in the interests of humanity – the interests that Buddhism believes > to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and > ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist > illumination are functions of man’s presence in the Buddhist truth – > the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is – which is seen to be man’s > true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of > joy that hath no bounds – joy that is as such absolute as being > absolute fulfilment of that which is man’s true Buddha nature. > It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or > another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man’s truth > and man’s actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The > scientific path, that claims man’s true nature as being of intellect > whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in > one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of > knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to > build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of > scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of > cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must > present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in > the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen > to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man’s true > nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of > discovery and the quest to continue – what is believed to be man’s true > nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical > study – motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and > examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and > then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an > explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and > replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is > likewise seen to be a reflection of man’s true nature as the scientist > and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy > but addition to man’s quest for knowledge as such. > In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen > to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce > the man that Communism saw as being man’s true nature: That of service > to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was > advertised as man’s greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism > believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably > to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common > good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic > ideologies, that believe man’s true nature to be that of warrior, > advertise man’s greatest joy as that of winning in battle – and that of > course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism, > man’s true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose > natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or > business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to > trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised > here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man’s > "rational self-interest" – and the exchange of which goods in the > market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is > claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all. > This economic concept of man – as a being seeking to maximize utility – > is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a > spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational > being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable > process; as a warrior; or anything similar. > The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have > everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff > to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck > and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of > what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all > these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level > described by the psychologist than they do on others – in the same way > as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies. > The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human > difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than > for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than > they do for the next. > The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for > service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to > Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as > being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong > things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which > finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff > traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in > which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by > that faith brought to it and into it completely. > Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man’s nature as that of > the lover and finds man’s highest joy in passionate love and manifests > in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output. > This path unites man’s spiritual nature – as being of spirit that lives > by intuition and inspiration; with man’s natural nature – as sexual > being; with man’s emotional nature – as being who seeks to share with > and be close to another person; with man’s rational nature – as being > that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find, > having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings’ "The final secret will > still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is > woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man – all of > which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more > natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at > different times in his life – we are left at the consummation of > spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that > combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these > are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who > combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of > them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and > delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself – a > masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness – and out of > the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings, > photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show > them the paradise that she knows and that she is. > So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of > consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia. > I hope you find the truth that works for you. > Ilya Shambat.

Those who speak don’t know. Those who know don’t speak. The Tao

Response:

The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being. The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns, and simple-minded worldviews – whether of Protestant nature or of "realist" nature – the likes of which have been inexplicably and overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation, or else one’s view be dishonest – and, as a result, barbaric and malicious. Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other paths. The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for one’s fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what is in the interests of humanity – the interests that Buddhism believes to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist illumination are functions of man’s presence in the Buddhist truth – the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is – which is seen to be man’s true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of joy that hath no bounds – joy that is as such absolute as being absolute fulfilment of that which is man’s true Buddha nature. It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man’s truth and man’s actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The scientific path, that claims man’s true nature as being of intellect whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man’s true nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of discovery and the quest to continue – what is believed to be man’s true nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical study – motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is likewise seen to be a reflection of man’s true nature as the scientist and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy but addition to man’s quest for knowledge as such. In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce the man that Communism saw as being man’s true nature: That of service to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was advertised as man’s greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic ideologies, that believe man’s true nature to be that of warrior, advertise man’s greatest joy as that of winning in battle – and that of course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism, man’s true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man’s "rational self-interest" – and the exchange of which goods in the market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all. This economic concept of man – as a being seeking to maximize utility – is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable process; as a warrior; or anything similar. The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level described by the psychologist than they do on others – in the same way as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies. The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than they do for the next. The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by that faith brought to it and into it completely. Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man’s nature as that of the lover and finds man’s highest joy in passionate love and manifests in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output. This path unites man’s spiritual nature – as being of spirit that lives by intuition and inspiration; with man’s natural nature – as sexual being; with man’s emotional nature – as being who seeks to share with and be close to another person; with man’s rational nature – as being that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find, having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings’ "The final secret will still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man – all of which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at different times in his life – we are left at the consummation of spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself – a masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness – and out of the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings, photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show them the paradise that she knows and that she is. So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia. I hope you find the truth that works for you. Ilya Shambat.

Response:

The final secret

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ilya the Bat wrote: > The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being. > The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns, > and simple-minded worldviews – whether of Protestant nature or of > "realist" nature – the likes of which have been inexplicably and > overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are > simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple > outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly > glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation, > or else one’s view be dishonest – and, as a result, barbaric and > malicious. > Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was > based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were > part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and > their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for > the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much > true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for > psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other > paths. > The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness > with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality > beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual > is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the > enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by > the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for > one’s fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to > the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as > well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations > where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous > lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself > for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice > either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to > simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state > of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower > states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in > order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what > is in the interests of humanity – the interests that Buddhism believes > to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and > ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist > illumination are functions of man’s presence in the Buddhist truth – > the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is – which is seen to be man’s > true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of > joy that hath no bounds – joy that is as such absolute as being > absolute fulfilment of that which is man’s true Buddha nature. > It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or > another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man’s truth > and man’s actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The > scientific path, that claims man’s true nature as being of intellect > whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in > one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of > knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to > build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of > scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of > cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must > present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in > the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen > to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man’s true > nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of > discovery and the quest to continue – what is believed to be man’s true > nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical > study – motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and > examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and > then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an > explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and > replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is > likewise seen to be a reflection of man’s true nature as the scientist > and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy > but addition to man’s quest for knowledge as such. > In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen > to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce > the man that Communism saw as being man’s true nature: That of service > to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was > advertised as man’s greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism > believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably > to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common > good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic > ideologies, that believe man’s true nature to be that of warrior, > advertise man’s greatest joy as that of winning in battle – and that of > course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism, > man’s true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose > natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or > business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to > trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised > here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man’s > "rational self-interest" – and the exchange of which goods in the > market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is > claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all. > This economic concept of man – as a being seeking to maximize utility – > is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a > spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational > being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable > process; as a warrior; or anything similar. > The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have > everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff > to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck > and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of > what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all > these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level > described by the psychologist than they do on others – in the same way > as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies. > The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human > difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than > for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than > they do for the next. > The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for > service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to > Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as > being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong > things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which > finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff > traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in > which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by > that faith brought to it and into it completely. > Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man’s nature as that of > the lover and finds man’s highest joy in passionate love and manifests > in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output. > This path unites man’s spiritual nature – as being of spirit that lives > by intuition and inspiration; with man’s natural nature – as sexual > being; with man’s emotional nature – as being who seeks to share with > and be close to another person; with man’s rational nature – as being > that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find, > having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings’ "The final secret will > still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is > woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man – all of > which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more > natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at > different times in his life – we are left at the consummation of > spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that > combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these > are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who > combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of > them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and > delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself – a > masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness – and out of > the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings, > photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show > them the paradise that she knows and that she is. > So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of > consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia. > I hope you find the truth that works for you. > Ilya Shambat.

Those who speak don’t know. Those who know don’t speak. The Tao

Response:

Tower of Pisa.  My middle name is Eileen.  Ar Ar Ar. "marasu" <mar…@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:1130513629.255353.309920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> "PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote… > Used2be wrote: >> pisa crumb cake? > leaning layers of pisa cake?

Response:

"Used2be" <used…@nowhere.com> wrote don’t you guys remember the rabbi "pisa cake" skits from saturday night live??? oh, dat’s a gonna be a pisa cake.  <g> and then he did a little bit in the kids movie Casper (i LOVED that movie) where he was trying to convince the people that he could remove the ghosts from the haunted mansion and he says, "oh dat’s a gonna be a pisa cake…a pisa crumb cake." i love that guy…

Response:

Try to get your judgement and expectation out of the view screen you are looking at Ilya.  The defense structure creates all that happens to you for your own entertainment.  The defense structure seeks to heal you, your childhood, your family, your future, your nation and the world … the defense structure made you who you are today … a survivor … working recovery. So put love into where all the judgement and expectation you have inside and see it as all good … the defense structure is all good and what it does is good.  This is why you love who you love and get in to the shit that you do with relationships … its all about love. Not the hate, the fear, the judgement expectation that makes criticism and shame. Love dont do those things. Good luck in changing the emotional bathwater and keeping the baby. Its a simple process that hurts like hell. sumbuddie on da watchtower in article 1130512204.156395.300…@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Ilya the Bat at ibshambat2…@hotmail.com wrote on 10/28/05 7:10 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being.

Response:

"hell_is_others" <tmozzare…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1130512675.489875.181980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… > Ilya the Bat wrote: > a whole lot of pretentious, bloviating bullshit that is as incoherent as > ever. > Those who speak don’t know. > Those who know don’t speak. > The Tao

See how easy that was?

Response:

hell_is_others wrote: > Those who speak don’t know. > Those who know don’t speak.

So what are you waiting for? Become a tree, and know!

Response:

"PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote…

pisa crumb cake???

Response:

> "PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote… Used2be wrote: > pisa crumb cake?

leaning layers of pisa cake?

Response:

"Used2be" <used…@nowhere.com> wrote in message

news:Jtr8f.25142$Bf7.2604@tornado.texas.rr.com… > "PisaCake" <sherr…@adelphia.net> wrote… > pisa crumb cake???

pisa mangia cake

Response:

The simplistic worldviews are easy to the mind, but wrong to the being. The human body has 3 trillion cells, arranged in intricate patterns, and simple-minded worldviews – whether of Protestant nature or of "realist" nature – the likes of which have been inexplicably and overbearingly equated with ethics and honor and good citizenship are simply dishonest and untrue. There may be a simple cause, or a simple outcome, at a higher level. But before its nature can be truly glimpsed, it is incumbent to see the complexity of the manifestation, or else one’s view be dishonest – and, as a result, barbaric and malicious. Every belief system that ever existed, from religious to secular, was based on the concept of what is man. It appears that many of them were part-right; that they were describing part of human beingness, and their solutions were right to the extent that they were appropriate for the person at hand at the time of life of that person. This is as much true for capitalism as it is true for science, as it is true for psychology, as it is true for religion and spirituality and other paths. The Buddhist approach of achieving enlightenment is achieving oneness with the law of cause and effect, which is seen to be the true reality beyond all mental and sensory fabrication. "The enlightened individual is one with the law of cause and effect." From which position the enlightened individual, from what I can see, is apparently driven by the law of cause and effect to do deeds of compassion and good for one’s fellow human beings, with the ultimate goal of getting them to the same place. It appears likewise that the enlightened individual (as well as an individual on path to enlightenment) is put into situations where he has to rectify wrong done either in this or in previous lifetime; to clear himself of karmic entanglements; and to free himself for ultimate liberation, at which point he apparently has the choice either to continue existing and go back to help other people or to simply disappear into the light. The deeds done wrong at a higher state of enlightenment carry more weight than the deeds done wrong at lower states, and the constant presence of mind and spirit is requisite in order not only to maintain that state of being, but likewise to do what is in the interests of humanity – the interests that Buddhism believes to be liberation and final merger. The joy and compassion and ever-present energy that is associated with state of Buddhist illumination are functions of man’s presence in the Buddhist truth – the true cause-and-effect; the all-as-is – which is seen to be man’s true and intended state, and which is as such experienced as a place of joy that hath no bounds – joy that is as such absolute as being absolute fulfilment of that which is man’s true Buddha nature. It occurs to me that many other paths that seek enlightenment of one or another kind, based on one or another concept of what is man’s truth and man’s actual nature, offer paths that are of similar character. The scientific path, that claims man’s true nature as being of intellect whose purpose is acquisition of knowledge through scientific method in one or another discipline, seeks to identify the mind with the canon of knowledge that exists in the discipline and then use his own mind to build on that canon. The mind is disciplined into the mindset of scientific method; which mindset is trained to exclude all modes of cognition that are inconsistent with scientific method and that must present all new evidence in terms of evidence that already exists in the field being studied. This is a different path toward what is seen to be enlightenment, based on a different concept of what is man’s true nature and leading to significantly different results. The joy of discovery and the quest to continue – what is believed to be man’s true nature as a being that seeks to apprehend the world through empirical study – motivate man through many plodding hours of analysis and examination; new ideas come up, build on each other, are discarded, and then occasionally turn over the entire body of knowledge with an explanation that completely uproots the previous way of thinking and replaces it with something not thought of before. The joy seen here is likewise seen to be a reflection of man’s true nature as the scientist and discoverer; with the result being of course not only his own joy but addition to man’s quest for knowledge as such. In ideology-driven societies such as Communism, enlightenment was seen to be identification with the ideology; which was supposed to produce the man that Communism saw as being man’s true nature: That of service to the proletariat and progress of mankind. This likewise was advertised as man’s greatest joy based on the belief of what Communism believed to be man: A part in a historical process leading inevitably to a global Communist order in which all selflessly serve the common good and are indiscriminately given what they need. Militaristic ideologies, that believe man’s true nature to be that of warrior, advertise man’s greatest joy as that of winning in battle – and that of course works for some, but with consequences for others. In capitalism, man’s true nature is seen to be that of consumer and of producer, whose natural good is material acquisition and of doing whatever work or business transaction is necessary to produce the goods necessary to trade in the market for the good that one seeks. The joy advertised here is that of having possessions; which is believed to be man’s "rational self-interest" – and the exchange of which goods in the market through mechanism of competition and improved efficiency is claimed to lead to improvement in the "rational self-interest" of all. This economic concept of man – as a being seeking to maximize utility – is of course in direct contradiction to the concept of man as a spiritual being whose goal is spiritual enlightenment; as a rational being whose goal is knowledge; as a part of a historically inevitable process; as a warrior; or anything similar. The psychological concept of man depends upon the psychology. We have everything from existential "self-actualization" to social-animal stuff to various psychoanalytic traditions to the neo-Calvinism of Scott Peck and Hillmann. The idea of what gives highest joy becomes a function of what is seen to be the true nature of what is man. And of course in all these cases, it plays better to people who operate on the level described by the psychologist than they do on others – in the same way as is the case for capitalism, science, Communism and other ideologies. The concept of what is man drives the ideology. The fact of human difference means that each of these is more appropriate for some than for others; and each of these paths work better for one person than they do for the next. The Christian concept of man is that of embodied spirit invented for service to God; and the highest joy is seen as that of surrender to Holy Spirit and serving God and man. The highest function is seen as being faith; which faith can be in either the right things or wrong things, but is in all cases the truth of human being. Based on which finding it has been possible for people to do all kinds of spinoff traditions, from metaphysics to mysticism to New Age spirituality, in which the person is placing his faith in one or another thing and is by that faith brought to it and into it completely. Finally there is the romantic path, that sees man’s nature as that of the lover and finds man’s highest joy in passionate love and manifests in inspiration and passion and emotional sharing and artistic output. This path unites man’s spiritual nature – as being of spirit that lives by intuition and inspiration; with man’s natural nature – as sexual being; with man’s emotional nature – as being who seeks to share with and be close to another person; with man’s rational nature – as being that seeks to fathom the world through experience. And what I find, having pursued that path, is that e.e. cummings’ "The final secret will still be man" should be replaced with this: "The final secret is woman." Given all the aforementioned concepts of what is man – all of which are undeniably part of what is man, and all of which are more natural to some men than to others and more natural to the same man at different times in his life – we are left at the consummation of spiritual, philosophical and passionate quest with this: A being that combines all of these things, at the same, and in which being all these are integrated and made manifest in their full resplendor. A being who combines spirit, civilization and nature at once and makes of all of them the highest fruition and highest embodiment; who is intricate and delicate and warm and delightful; who is a masterpiece herself – a masterpiece combining all forces that make human beingness – and out of the wisdom that is embodied within her creates magnificent paintings, photographs and calligraphy and reaches out to others seeking to show them the paradise that she knows and that she is. So my solution? IN FLORE VERITAS. In flower, truth. The logic of consummation and continuity. The truth I found? Julia. I hope you find the truth that works for you. Ilya Shambat.

Response:

pain is (still) my friend

Question:

In news:Xns96D9D9C4D9C9Deh3du@localhost, Troll <tr…@master.com> wrote : > "F

Reflections of an American Conversion

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reflections of an American Conversion By Aaminah Hern