Ok, WHIC David Burns book??

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The guy has too many books named nearly the same thing. Which is the better of them? I don’t need CBT re-re-re-explained to me and want to get to the meat and potatoes of it all. Feeling Good – The New Mood Therapy The Feeling Good Handbook Ten Days To Self-Esteem These are the ones under consideration.  I know the ten days to is NOT intended to actually work in ten days. I have no idea of the differences between the other two. Version and printing date would be helpful, ISBN would be great. Again, I am not after a book that describes CBT, I am after one that uses CBT. I would really like to find an audio book but not much is out there, not much that I have found as yet. The reason for the audio book type of thing is so that I am not hearing "Me" , I still don’t trust my inner voice all that much. Thanks, Thor

Hya Thor The New Mood Therapy would be my choise for you A lot of examples and things you can work out yourself I can hear you when you say you don’t need to a description but a helpful book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380731762/o/qid=934233179/sr=… You can order there – cheapest second hand copy is $ 3.17 love from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

  Thanks for the reply and the very helpful link!. I have a copy of this book, an   earlier version of this book, that I found on the net but it can be so difficult   to read e-books. I CANNOT read e-books I go insane     Did you not have a feel for the self-esteem book? I think it may be one of his   less known books. yes it is a good book also What I like about the other one is the constant reminder of out emotional distortions  And the fact you have pages with training . I always have the feeling our biggest hangups are the Shoulds the Woulds and the Ifs  I was with a friend last week and we discussed Buddhism ( the lifestyle that fits me  )and I daid I was not unlike REBT My friend told me that Ellis wrote a piece on the similarities in Buddhism and REBT I was happily surprised     What really surprises me is the lack of answers to my malformed (whic instead of   which<G)question. I would think that many in this group have read the Burns   books at one time or another. This is not a complaint, just an expression of   surprise. I am surprised also cause it is a very well known book here. But posting seems a bit slow these days (summer ?) Maybe you should put HELP before the question <G     Thank you again for the reply, link and especially the love.       Thor You are most welcome Love from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Daily Gosho Passage – April 27

Question:

Re: Daily Passage – April 27   Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Apr 27, 2005, 10:29pm (CDT+5) From: waterspi…@moonshine.net (Waterspider) Hey, Elmo, this one’s for you! Ahahahahahhaha! ////////// Yeah, it’s pretty funny.  Fart jokes are better, tho.  :-) EllllMo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

In article <15902-4270312B…@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net> elmoemer…@webtv.net wrote: > Re: Daily Passage – April 27 > Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Wed, Apr 27, 2005, 10:29pm (CDT+5) > From: waterspi…@moonshine.net (Waterspider) > Hey, Elmo, this one’s for you! > Ahahahahahhaha! > ////////// > Yeah, it’s pretty funny.  Fart jokes are better, tho.  :-) > EllllMo

I like *Lawyer* Jokes so here’s some: Q: What do you get if you put 100 lawyers in your basement? A: A whine cellar. Q: What do you call a lawyer gone bad? A: Your honor. Q: What do you call a judge gone bad? A: Senator. Q: Have you heard about the lawyers? word processor? A: No matter what font you select, everything comes out in fine print. Q: What’s the difference between a good lawyer and a great lawyer? A: A good lawyer knows the law. A great lawyer knows the judge. Q: When lawyers die, why don’t vultures eat them? A: Even a vulture has taste. Q: What do you call a lawyer with an I.Q. of 10? A: A lawyer. Q: What do you call a lawyer with an I.Q. of 50? A: Your honor. Firebird

Response:

"Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message

news:PLQbe.34843$dr.5204@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote >> "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote >>> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo >>> Women support others and thereby cause others to support them.  When a >>> husband is happy, his wife will be fulfilled.  If a husband is a >>> thief, his wife will become one, too. >>>                       Letter to the Brothers >>>                        MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 >>> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo >> I didn’t realize that Buddhism was so sexist… >> Waterspider > You obviously don’t realize that the above was written in the 13th century > in Feudal Japan and was part of a letter to one of his followers. > Alias

I hardly expected that you pulled it off the CNN website…

Response:

Hey, Elmo, this one’s for you! Ahahahahahhaha!

Response:

"Thip" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:3daeigF6qbaslU1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message > news:PLQbe.34843$dr.5204@news.ono.com… >> "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote >> > "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote >> >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo >> >> Women support others and thereby cause others to support them.  When a >> >> husband is happy, his wife will be fulfilled.  If a husband is a >> >> thief, his wife will become one, too. >> >>                       Letter to the Brothers >> >>                        MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 >> >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo >> > I didn’t realize that Buddhism was so sexist… >> > Waterspider >> You obviously don’t realize that the above was written in the 13th >> century >> in Feudal Japan and was part of a letter to one of his followers. >> Alias > I just re-read "Shogun" and realized the that first time I read it (long, > long ago), the total subservience of the women completely escaped me.  I > just enjoyed the book without thinking too deeply. > And, Alias, Waterspider is not Buddhist and therefore has no way to put > your > passage into perspective.  It would help if you would add something beyond > the passage itself if you wish the reader to understand.

In spite of my atheism, I do understand it Thipper; I was just tweaking Cody’s funnybone. Hey Alias, how about you drop these daily Goshos and send us I Ching quotes instead, way more fun. Waterspider

Response:

Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo Women support others and thereby cause others to support them.  When a husband is happy, his wife will be fulfilled.  If a husband is a thief, his wife will become one, too.                        Letter to the Brothers                         MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo

Response:

"Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message

news:ypLbe.38926$US.18250@news.ono.com… > Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo > Women support others and thereby cause others to support them.  When a > husband is happy, his wife will be fulfilled.  If a husband is a > thief, his wife will become one, too. >                       Letter to the Brothers >                        MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 > Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo

I didn’t realize that Buddhism was so sexist… Waterspider

Response:

"Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote > "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo >> Women support others and thereby cause others to support them.  When a >> husband is happy, his wife will be fulfilled.  If a husband is a >> thief, his wife will become one, too. >>                       Letter to the Brothers >>                        MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo > I didn’t realize that Buddhism was so sexist… > Waterspider

You obviously don’t realize that the above was written in the 13th century in Feudal Japan and was part of a letter to one of his followers. Alias

Response:

sounds like the rumsfelt chronicles ever read a handmaiden’s tale? about women being the first victim of a tyranical regieme? catus jammies "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote in message

news:eHQbe.6990$HR1.3987@clgrps12… doofus rote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> thief, his wife will become one, too. >>                       Letter to the Brothers >>                        MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo > I didn’t realize that Buddhism was so sexist… > Waterspider

Response:

"Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message

news:PLQbe.34843$dr.5204@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Waterspider" <waterspi…@moonshine.net> wrote > > "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote > >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo > >> Women support others and thereby cause others to support them.  When a > >> husband is happy, his wife will be fulfilled.  If a husband is a > >> thief, his wife will become one, too. > >>                       Letter to the Brothers > >>                        MWND, Vol. I, p. 146 > >> Nam – Myoho – Renge – Kyo > > I didn’t realize that Buddhism was so sexist… > > Waterspider > You obviously don’t realize that the above was written in the 13th century > in Feudal Japan and was part of a letter to one of his followers. > Alias

I just re-read "Shogun" and realized the that first time I read it (long, long ago), the total subservience of the women completely escaped me.  I just enjoyed the book without thinking too deeply. And, Alias, Waterspider is not Buddhist and therefore has no way to put your passage into perspective.  It would help if you would add something beyond the passage itself if you wish the reader to understand.

Response:

This group.

Question:

I was a little shocked when I read that person’s reaction to you. He lives in Australia. He is usually an accepting and forgiving person, but something in your composure triggered his explosive charge. Unusual. I have shared that experience on a closed list in Yahoo for Eck Vahanas who act as vehicles for the message of Eck. I was careful not to reveal anyone’s identity, Random Cig. I read my first book on Eckankar named ‘Eckankar: Key To Secret Worlds’ when I was staying in a Buddhist monastery in Thailand in December of 1975 shortly after being discharged from a seven year hitch in the USNavy. When I came back to California I introduced a Navy friend to Eckankar after he got a lawyer to get a discharge from the Navy. He went back home to Oregon. I met up with him in the Spring of ‘76 on my way home to Washington. He had become an Eckist. After having spent the summer on a hog farm that fed its pigs dead livestock (the smell is OK after awhile) I moved to a trailer home 16 miles out of town and joined Eckankar myself. I have spent most of my life with no contact with other Eckists, so it doesn’t mean much to me as a religion. The Light and Sound are a personal path. At the moment I have a friend who is Pagan. I want to dance nude with her on a warm, moonlit night in a secret glen she has found and shared with me. She lives a life of her own in another state. I had met her in the early 80’s, dreamt about her a year ago, found her on the internet, and lo and behold! she wrote me back. I hope you are able to obtain a disability pension, Random, if you put in for one. Probe around to see if SSI will pay for some kind of training if you want it. You might have to find a savvy social worker willing to help you get through the hoops. I found out recently I can afford to go to community college as a Vietnam Vet for $7 a credit. This will be my big chance after a lifetime of poverty. Sing HU and stay on course as you have been doing. In Spirit, JR

Response:

The standard issue is: A newsreader and a tinfoil helmet This place is not for wimps — Stuart J. Shillinglaw in Winnipeg http://shillinglaw.atspace.com/ http://schizophrenia.atspace.org/webrings.html

Response:

And portable headphones blaring music to blot out the head rattle of voices. I wonder how many of those people walking the streets blabbing into their cell phones actually have a person on the other end talking back? I mean, a cell phone is a perfect cover for a head talker. http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MystoryasIseeit

Response:

I am not always certain if I am on solid ground. Self-discipline and regular contemplation or doing a spiritual exercise daily are two key factors in maintaining stability in the ebb and flow of life’s unexpected moments. This is a good honest question and I will be thinking about it some more, Random Cig. Thank-you for asking. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Random_Cig wrote:> > Do you feel like you are on solid ground, spiritually speaking?  I am in > a seek and search mode.  I am trying things out, seeing what fits.

Response:

I like this group.  I am happy I found it.  I tried posting to another group, but the people were not very nice. — Random Cig I like this group, too, Random Cig. I thought your sincerety on a.r.e. was treated rudely by one or two of the posters there. You are not mean spirited. I don’t think anyone here with SZ is. These individuals will need to repent of their karma eventually. You could go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HU-Chat/ to see how well you are received. a.r.e. has become hidebound with its daily harangue by one person of another. You are a good person, just like everyone here. JR

Response:

Fuck

Question:

Victor wrote: > "Dolores" <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in message > news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn-iw@comcast.com… > >I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, > >and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn. > Is that the title of your book? > Sounds good.

he wants you Lola once he’s finished with Pnats, you’re next in his sights. just call me the Usenet early warning system.

Response:

Oh man, so many arrangements I was never able to recreate again.

Response:

kitzneg…@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote in news:20050209011325.16614.00000014@mb-m26.aol.com: >>I lost the novel I was writing when a hard disk crashed. I’d written a >>hell of a lot. > that’s why we save things by putting them online, people.  save it to > a website, then in a blog, then email it to yourself at 3 different > addresses.  

This is a good policy.  Whenever I’m putting a lot of time into a project on the computer, I always make sure to store a backup at a different physical location.  I’m paranoid about natural disasters and theft.  :)

Response:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn- i…@comcast.com: > I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, > and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn.

Some group of Buddhist monks apparently do this kind of thing on purpose.   They spend months toiling over an intricate piece of artwork until it’s just perfect, like, the best thing they ever made, then, at the height of their pride and satisfaction, they destroy it. Not that this makes you feel any better, but uhh…, it shows that I know stuff.  So anyway….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lash Rambo wrote: > Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn- > i…@comcast.com: >>I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, >>and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn. > Some group of Buddhist monks apparently do this kind of thing on purpose.   > They spend months toiling over an intricate piece of artwork until it’s > just perfect, like, the best thing they ever made, then, at the height of > their pride and satisfaction, they destroy it. > Not that this makes you feel any better, but uhh…, it shows that I know > stuff.  So anyway….

        Sand paintings. They draw mandalas with colored sands and then destroy the damn things when they are finished (I think some Amerindian tribes might have sand painind traditions also –unless it’s just some synapses that have gotten cross wired in my brain that makes me think this). August Pamplona — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

August Pamplona <cosmic…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:36vr9iF54suoaU1@individual.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo wrote: >> Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in >> news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn- i…@comcast.com: >>>I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever >>>written, and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? >>>Shitfuckdamn. >> Some group of Buddhist monks apparently do this kind of thing on >> purpose.  They spend months toiling over an intricate piece of >> artwork until it’s just perfect, like, the best thing they ever made, >> then, at the height of their pride and satisfaction, they destroy it. >> Not that this makes you feel any better, but uhh…, it shows that I >> know stuff.  So anyway…. >      Sand paintings. They draw mandalas with colored sands and then >      destroy > the damn things when they are finished (I think some Amerindian tribes > might have sand painind traditions also –unless it’s just some > synapses that have gotten cross wired in my brain that makes me think > this). > August Pamplona

Tibetan Buddhists…& yes, I do think some native peoples indulged in sand painting as well. — "Poor Jack–he was a wise man, but he loved playing with that wheat thresher. ALWAYS with the wheat thresher!"  Peter Griffin. Winning Hearts&Minds: http://eerierodent.blogspot.com

Response:

Lash Rambo wrote: > Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in

news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i…@comcast.com: > > I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, > > and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn. > Some group of Buddhist monks apparently do this kind of thing on purpose. > They spend months toiling over an intricate piece of artwork until it’s > just perfect, like, the best thing they ever made, then, at the height of > their pride and satisfaction, they destroy it. > Not that this makes you feel any better, but uhh…, it shows that I know > stuff.  So anyway….

Did the same thing in college, used to do photograhy and wrote poems. One night I took all my photos and poems and threw them out. I guess I’m a latent Buddhist, except for the height of pride thing. I basically knew my poetry and photos sucked.

Response:

mWarrior wrote: > Dolores wrote: >> I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever >> written, and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? >> Shitfuckdamn. > What happen to your writing? > Also possessing one’s own writing doesn’t make them fulfilled but > possessing the insight that inspired the writing does. Have you lost > that too?

My hard drive crashed, the floppy backups are corrupted, and the other hard drive backup is mysteriously gone. As for "insight"… who told you that? It’s a product, just like anything else. Self-obsessing may make you a good writer, but it doesn’t make you a better person. I quit writing to become a better person. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Jaycee wrote: > Ok, Lolita, in what way are you shy? Oh, that’s right, you aren’t. Get > the fuck out!

Suck my cock, impotent bitch. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Jim Winters wrote: > As a songwriter, I find it EXTREMELY frustrating when a piece I’m > working on gets accidentally deleted…but it can also be > advantageoous, because I am then forced to recreate the song from my > memory. Somehow it always ends up sounding a lot better the second time > I do it. It’s a time-consuming, but very effective, way of revising. > I could not imagine having to rewrite something as long as a book, > though. That would be a tad overwhelming.

Yeah, I’m not going to. It was in its second draft, and I still have a rough draft printed out somewhere, but it was pretty much shelved and I have no intention of ever going back to it. The poetry hurts more. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

kitznegari thinks it has wings wrote: >>I lost the novel I was writing when a hard disk crashed. I’d written a >>hell of a lot. > that’s why we save things by putting them online, people.  save it to a > website, then in a blog, then email it to yourself at 3 different addresses.   > the internet will never crash. > people need to learn. > – k i t z – > http://kitznegari.tripod.com

Aren’t you special. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Pumpkinhead wrote: > "Dolores" <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in message > news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn-iw@comcast.com… >>I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, >>and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn. > I sometimes think about all the Doom wads I made that got lost when my hard > drive went bad.  That was in 1997.

Tragedy seems to have struck hard in 1997. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Darkfalz wrote: > I lost the novel I was writing when a hard disk crashed. I’d written a > hell of a lot. This was in 1997. I used to read a lot in high school > and I was a pretty damn good writer. Not anymore though. My vocabulary > has shrunken like a penis in icy weather. I could still look at most > words and remember what they mean, but they aren’t there to use when I > write. Though, I do believe you should be conservative, because if > people can’t understand what you write and have to look up every 20th > word then there’s not much point in writing it. I probably was guilty > of using "big words" just for the sake of it on occasion.

God, that sucks! I gave up writing because it interferes with my ability to interact with other people, including my kids. It definitely just goes away after a while, though I suppose it’s lying latent, ready for you to pick up the pen again if you ever choose to. Have you ever thought you might start writing again? — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Dolores wrote: > As for "insight"… who told you that? It’s a product, just like > anything else. Self-obsessing may make you a good writer, but it doesn’t > make you a better person. I quit writing to become a better person.

Quite Possibly, I was speaking from my own experiences. Though not with that particluar art form. I feel I have become a better person because my outlets of expression have better externalized by thoughts. Even if the actually products are gone.

Response:

kitznegari thinks it has wings wrote: > >I lost the novel I was writing when a hard disk crashed. I’d written a > >hell of a lot. > that’s why we save things by putting them online, people.  save it to a > website, then in a blog, then email it to yourself at 3 different addresses. > the internet will never crash.

that’s what you tell yourself, but are you sure the real reason isn’t just your ego? (you could after all back everything up to a CD-R or a DVD-R and none of us would be the wiser) this is a comment about BLOGs in general, but my feeling on reading most of them is that they are more about a persons own self perception about how interesting they are, rather than how interesting their own lives actually are. like I asked you before – without response .. why on earth do you have an FAQ about *yourself*?  A poster to a shyness forum too. It seems something of an oxymoron.

Response:

Ack, I know how that is. A couple years back thanks to a hard drive crash I lost everything, including hundreds of audio projects that I’d spent easily more than a thousand hours on.

Response:

"Dolores" <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in message

news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn-iw@comcast.com… >I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, >and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn.

I sometimes think about all the Doom wads I made that got lost when my hard drive went bad.  That was in 1997.

Response:

Some wounds time will never heal…

Response:

Victor wrote: > "Dolores" <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in message > news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn-iw@comcast.com… >>I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, >>and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn. > Is that the title of your book? > Sounds good.

Yes. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

I lost the novel I was writing when a hard disk crashed. I’d written a hell of a lot. This was in 1997. I used to read a lot in high school and I was a pretty damn good writer. Not anymore though. My vocabulary has shrunken like a penis in icy weather. I could still look at most words and remember what they mean, but they aren’t there to use when I write. Though, I do believe you should be conservative, because if people can’t understand what you write and have to look up every 20th word then there’s not much point in writing it. I probably was guilty of using "big words" just for the sake of it on occasion.

Response:

>I lost the novel I was writing when a hard disk crashed. I’d written a >hell of a lot.

that’s why we save things by putting them online, people.  save it to a website, then in a blog, then email it to yourself at 3 different addresses.   the internet will never crash. people need to learn. – k i t z – http://kitznegari.tripod.com

Response:

I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

"Dolores" <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in message

news:auydnTx3eotDE5TfRVn-iw@comcast.com… >I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, >and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn.

Is that the title of your book? Sounds good.

Response:

Ok, Lolita, in what way are you shy? Oh, that’s right, you aren’t. Get the fuck out! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dolores wrote: > I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, > and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn.

Response:

Dolores wrote: > I occasionally remember that I have lost everything I have ever written, > and then I feel empty. A thousand poems, gone? My book? Shitfuckdamn.

As a songwriter, I find it EXTREMELY frustrating when a piece I’m working on gets accidentally deleted…but it can also be advantageoous, because I am then forced to recreate the song from my memory. Somehow it always ends up sounding a lot better the second time I do it. It’s a time-consuming, but very effective, way of revising. I could not imagine having to rewrite something as long as a book, though. That would be a tad overwhelming.

Response:

OT: How was your shun day ?

Question:

I worked on my shed most of the day. It was fun! I framed in the door and wired in the outlets; two on one circuit and five on the other, with a porch light and a ceiling light. I would have liked to hook it up but stupid Home Depot was out of 1/2" set screw connectors and of course didn’t have any JBs with 3/4"  portals. Fuckers! I would just do it tomorrow, but it’s just me and the smallest offspring tomorrow so it’ll probably be a lazy day. Oh, except my Dad is coming by with a table saw so I can trim the shed door, yay! It’ll be so nice to have a door! It’s going to be so cute. I also need insulation and sheetrock. I picked up some linoleum tile cheap at the building salvage, so I just need adhesive. And some more cedar shingles for the front. -=Lola – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me free tickets > to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, removing rocks, > planted few bushes, mulched the trees. >  At work, my boss asked me to give some fucking 1 hour training/presentation > session. yeeks HATE those. Been ages since I presented something to a big crowd > at work.

Response:

>I worked on my shed most of the day. It was fun! I framed in the door >and wired in the outlets; two on one circuit and five on the other, with >a porch light and a ceiling light. I would have liked to hook it up but >stupid Home Depot was out of 1/2" set screw connectors and of course >didn’t have any JBs with 3/4"  portals. Fuckers! I would just do it >tomorrow, but it’s just me and the smallest offspring tomorrow so it’ll >probably be a lazy day. Oh, except my Dad is coming by with a table saw >so I can trim the shed door, yay! It’ll be so nice to have a door! It’s >going to be so cute. >I also need insulation and sheetrock. I picked up some linoleum tile >cheap at the building salvage, so I just need adhesive. And some more >cedar shingles for the front. >-=Lola

kool, looks like you got a lot done. maybe post pics when shed is done. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >> I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me free >tickets >> to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >>   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, removing >rocks, >> planted few bushes, mulched the trees. >>  At work, my boss asked me to give some fucking 1 hour >training/presentation >> session. yeeks HATE those. Been ages since I presented something to a big >crowd >> at work.

Response:

DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >> DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>> I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me >>> free tickets to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >>>   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, >>> removing rocks, planted few bushes, mulched the trees. >   I have no idea, will be like 25 people in the room then some > suckers dial in from other parts of the country, world, they also > record the presentation for those who missed it. Was fun being to > those presentations, didnt think one day I will be the one presenting.

I’m always amazed at you "shy" guys being able to do this kind of thing (even though you dread it). Up until a little while ago I would literally have run out of the room rather than give the presentation. But I can do it now… – Michaela

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"Hot Pnats" <Sl…@slorp.cum.oh!> wrote in news:cn90tp$4l7$5@pita.alt.net: > Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend > http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/

I laughed and laughed at the song about the psychic hotline callers. Then I   thought about it and realized that there really are people like that. Then on purpose I put myself in high school mode and laughed some more. It is easy to put myself in high school mode now because my boss gave me a kid to work with who is really immature. He laughs when he goes into adult bookstores and sees plastic artificial boyfriends. You know what I am talking about but I forgot what you call yours. -phy

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dudenephx1…@aol.com (DudeNEPhx1971) wrote in news:20041115001817.06251.00000304@mb-m27.aol.com: > Friend of mine at work asked me once to come for a Buddhist service. I > have to check it out. Iam a Hindu, the chanting etc might not feel odd > to me.

This Indian doctor in a nearby city gave a seminar thingabout his religion at the museum once. It was real interesting. I really liked the dharma concept. He talked about the relationship between energy and spirit. I could dig most of the stuff except the reincarnation stuff, but who knows? And what’s up with Kali? I bet she voted for W. -phy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -phy wrote: > "Hot Pnats" <Sl…@slorp.cum.oh!> wrote in > news:cn90tp$4l7$5@pita.alt.net: > > Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend > > http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ > I laughed and laughed at the song about the psychic hotline callers. > Then I thought about it and realized that there really are people > like that. Then on purpose I put myself in high school mode and > laughed some more. It is easy to put myself in high school mode now > because my boss gave me a kid to work with who is really immature. He > laughs when he goes into adult bookstores and sees plastic artificial > boyfriends. You know what I am talking about but I forgot what you > call yours. > -phy

I call heems BOB. glad u got a kick owt of teh song and laffing. I laff alot like a loon latelee. it iz fun! — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ ———————————————————————— ———————— Teh REEL Official ASS Gallery http://assgallery.freeserverhost.com

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I will! I make a little headway every weekend. Today I hung the door. Next week I hope to cut vents and insulate. -=Lola – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > kool, looks like you got a lot done. maybe post pics when shed is done.

Response:

>DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >> I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me >> free tickets to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >>   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, >> removing rocks, planted few bushes, mulched the trees. >souwnds like u had fun. >>  At work, my boss asked me to give some fucking 1 hour >> training/presentation session. yeeks HATE those. Been ages since I >> presented something to a big crowd at work. >yes hate that shit too!! how manee peeps you gotta present to?

  I have no idea, will be like 25 people in the room then some suckers dial in from other parts of the country, world, they also record the presentation for those who missed it. Was fun being to those presentations, didnt think one day I will be the one presenting.

Response:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:13:30 +0000, DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me free tickets > to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, removing rocks, > planted few bushes, mulched the trees.

Went to a Buddhist service.  It was odd a first with all the chanting.  It reminded me too much of going to church when I was small, but I stuck it out.  Afterwards, joined some people for a discussion on one of the, er, folds of the eightfold noble path.  Later, went to Chinatown and pick up some goodies at a bakery, then went to another part of town and bought a Japanese horror comic book.  Haven’t read it yet.

Response:

>> I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me free >tickets >> to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >>   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, removing >rocks, >> planted few bushes, mulched the trees. >Went to a Buddhist service.  It was odd a first with all the chanting.

Friend of mine at work asked me once to come for a Buddhist service. I have to check it out. Iam a Hindu, the chanting etc might not feel odd to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It reminded me too much of going to church when I was small, but I stuck it >out.  Afterwards, joined some people for a discussion on one of the, er, >folds of the eightfold noble path.  Later, went to Chinatown and pick up >some goodies at a bakery, then went to another part of town and bought a >Japanese horror comic book.  Haven’t read it yet.

Response:

DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me > free tickets to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, > removing rocks, planted few bushes, mulched the trees. >  At work, my boss asked me to give some fucking 1 hour > training/presentation session. yeeks HATE those. Been ages since I > presented something to a big crowd at work.

what did i do? spent most of teh day with vic. poasted in mah bloog. took a shower. did mah chores. exercised. — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/

Response:

DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me > free tickets to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo. >   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, > removing rocks, planted few bushes, mulched the trees.

souwnds like u had fun. >  At work, my boss asked me to give some fucking 1 hour > training/presentation session. yeeks HATE those. Been ages since I > presented something to a big crowd at work.

yes hate that shit too!! how manee peeps you gotta present to? — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/

Response:

I went clubbing sat night, it was fun. Someone at the club gave me free tickets to another upcoming event at the club. woohoo.   Worked in backyard all weekend like a dog, digging up stuff, removing rocks, planted few bushes, mulched the trees.  At work, my boss asked me to give some fucking 1 hour training/presentation session. yeeks HATE those. Been ages since I presented something to a big crowd at work.

Response:

ADV-NEWS, "It seems like half the population is named after Genghis," Surnames added in Mongolian Communism.

Question:

As Mr. Spock would say, "fascinating" Chris

Response:

First-name basis goes the way of Mongolian Communism — out Mark Magnier,  Los Angeles Times October 31, 2004 ULAN BATOR, MONGOLIA — School principal Baast chose the name "Nomad" in keeping with his wandering spirit. Defense Minister Gurragchaa — the only Mongolian to venture into space — settled on "Cosmos." And anthropology student Vanchigdash picked the Mongolian word for "Wisdom." Mongolians, long used to using only first names, are reshaping their identities under a government-led initiative to add surnames. For those who didn’t give it much thought, and even some who did, the most obvious choice for a surname was, is and always will be Borjigin, the clan name of Genghis Khan, the 12th-century warrior and native son who put the Central Asian nation on the map. "It seems like half the population is named after Genghis," said Ganaa, a 30-year-old mother whose family initially considered Borjigin before settling on Aldar, the name of their ancestral village. "It’s good we’re adopting surnames, because there’s been lots of confusion. But with everyone choosing Genghis’ name, that’s also confusing." The new hereditary system of surnames promises to create more historic continuity than the use of one name. So far, however, most Mongolians still don’t use them, except on the most formal of occasions. "To tell you the truth, I can’t remember mine," said Odonbayar, a 24-year-old herder from southwestern Mongolia. First names worked reasonably well in an isolated, nomadic culture. But officials say surnames are now needed to avoid confusion in a more modern society, to help uncover long-buried roots as people delve into their clan histories and to prevent the sort of inbreeding that occurs when you’re not sure who your relatives are. Mongolia did once have family names. Local historians claim that the country was among the first to adopt them and cite clan-name entries in "The Secret History of the Mongols," a 13th-century text. This tradition was ended, however, when Mongolian Communists swept to power in the early 1920s. Clan names were initially banned in order to improve tax collection. So many people at the time shared the same last name, said Lonjid, a Mongolian State University historian, that using your first name — and occasionally your father’s for clarity — was seen as a way to make names more distinct. Once in place, the surname ban stuck, in part because it suited Mongolia’s often-brutal Communist regime, historians say. By wiping out clan names and historic baggage, the revolutionaries hoped to stifle resistance by the former aristocracy — so-called "golden relative" clans that traced their lineage to Genghis. Mongolia first passed a law requiring surnames in 1997, but it was largely ignored until this year, when the names became necessary for a new government identity card. Now, more than 90 percent of Mongolia’s 2.5 million people have adopted them, experts say. Holdouts tend to be herders and nomads in the country’s more remote areas. Many of those looking for help in choosing a name have turned to a how-to book written by Serjee, a linguist and director of the State Central Library of Mongolia. Look for histories that might reveal a family or clan name, he advised from his cavernous office in downtown Ulan Bator, the capital — although finding an original family name doesn’t necessarily guarantee you’ll want to use it. "My research suggests most original Mongolian surnames were bestowed by neighbors in the village," Serjee said. "These include ‘Thief’ and ‘Family of Seven Drunks.’ " If that fails, adopt a clan name specific to a geographic area, he suggested, or use a profession, a hometown, a nickname, something from nature or something unique about your lifestyle. "Be imaginative, be brave," he said. "Make up your own name. They may be new now, but in 50 years, they’ll be old." The naming frenzy has led individuals to some unexpected discoveries. When Dorjnamjim, head of the Mongolia office of the International Finance Corp., got together with family members, he learned that his father already knew their original last name — Urianhai — but had kept it a secret. Most Mongolians would immediately recognize Urianhai as the name of a Buddhist monk, part of a group particularly hated by Communists trying to wipe out religion. "If you were a monk, you were put to sleep forever by Stalin’s Mongolian puppets," Dorjnamjim said.  ***** Other cultures Mongolia may be late to the surname game, but its reasons for doing so, which include a desire to avoid confusion and appear more modern, dovetail with the experiences of other cultures. Throughout history, surnames have been adopted at different times by different cultures. One of the first references dates back to 2852 B.C., when a Chinese emperor decreed the use of hereditary family names. England, motivated by a shortage of first names, introduced them over a 600-year period starting around A.D. 1000. Japan made the push after 1870 as part of a modernization drive, and Turkey was as late as 1935. Some nations, including Indonesia and some Pacific Islands, still rely on one name. Mongolia’s drive to add surnames, whatever they may be, reflects a bid to reverse some of the social problems resulting from the ban. One of these has been unwitting inbreeding, resulting in deformed children. Communist resettlement policies in the 1950s and ’60s conspired with Mongolia’s lack of surnames to boost intermarriage among close family groups, medical experts say. Unfortunately, poverty and Mongolia’s expanse — it’s larger than Germany, France and Spain combined — have prevented detailed studies of the problem.

Response:

Vouchers take it on the chin again

Question:

MK.  [deleted mumbo jumbo ]. . . . How to apply the taxpayer’s K-12 education subsidy? Weigh the options. I was surprised by the USSC ruling in Locke, since the issues  resembled those in the "Witters" case,

You were surprised because you don’t  what was going on here, even though I have tried to educate you in past. You don’t read posts of others to learn anything you read them to find something to use as a launch pad for  your propaganda. (post-secondary, and a specifically religious course of instruction). In "Witters", the court held that a post-secondary vocational training subsidy which dis-allowed training for the ministry was unconstitutionally discriminatory.

Witters should have been held to be unconstitutional as well. But what we have or had was a justice that was more aligned to his political beliefs, his political philosophy, his party that appointed him than to law Law is constant, there is change but when there is change it is suppose to be slow and make sense. Law is based on precedence which provides guidance to judges and justices.  There was plenty of well established precedence present but that precedence didn’t lead where Rehnquist and his cohorts wanted to go. They were bound and determined to overturn previous rulings that they didn’t like and try and establish a new path of precedence. They wanted to basically over turn and reverse the previous courts and precedence set by them over the previous 40 or so years. I have presented this to you before only to have it deleted and ignored, but if you really want to understand, which you don’t, you have too big a hard on for the public school system you would do well to study it. PART V You want to study  the USSC and its rulings on aid to religion : Have at it: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cm0dav0m5hird75bi8oa98rfqte05eva… AND  Vouchers: Our Position http://members.tripod.com/~candst/vouposit.htm AND Newsgroups: misc.education,alt.atheism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.fan.rush-limba ugh [I had asked Panther --(MK)] What were the facts of "Witters" and what were the facts of "Mitchell v Helm"

[he replied] MK. Go to the Supreme Court website, or visit a law library.   The points at issue in "Witters" were close enough to the points at issue in "Mitchell" fopr the Court to cite "Witters".

[I added] Close enough, huh, well at least in the mind of that "brilliant legal scholar"  Justice Thomas and or his law clerks (LOL) to fit into what he/they were trying to accomplish. Do bear this little fact in mind: On the USSC level Chief  Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas have led the movement toward greater government accommodation of religion. Less yielding have been Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer. Justices Anthony Kennedy and Sandra Day O’Connor have often been considered "swing votes" in the high courts First Amendment cases. Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas have all at various times been quoted as saying they want aid to private religious made legal. Has nothing to do with law, history, founders, etc, it has to do with their own personal political philosophy and personal desire to make a mark on church state jurisprudence.  They have been foiled in the past as various times by either O’Connor or Kennedy. CASE Witters v. Washington Dept. of Services for the Blind, 474 U.S. 481 (1986) – Witters, a vision impaired individual, applied for state funding for higher education benefits offered under a statutory scheme to help the visually impaired become "productive members of society." The Commission empowered to provide the funds denied Witters application for benefits because he had chosen to enter a Bible College in preparation for a vocation as a minister. ISSUE RAISED Does state financial aid to an individual who is studying to become a minister violate the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment? HOLDING/RATIONALE The Court reversed this case on appeal from the State Supreme Court which had decided that if Witters received funding it would have the effect of advancing religion. The Supreme Court held that the statute had a secular purpose and that the program provided "neutrally available" state aid. The Court then sent the case back to the state court to apply the entanglement test. There are quite a few differences in the facts of the two cases. Just to mention a couple: (1) Witter involved a college, while Mitchell v Helms involved k-12 schools (2) Witter involved a  vocational rehabilitation program. A program that set aside funds for the specific purpose of subsidizing vocational training for those who were visually impaired. How many visually impaired students were involved in Mitchell v Helms? How many of those computers that the funds awarded by the Mitchell v Helms ruling will provide will be just for visually impaired students,. if any are? If they wanted a precedent, they had it in the cases that involved the providing of school books and some testing that had previously been decided There would be no problem with that. I expected, based on those past cases that Mitchell v Helms would be reversed. What I have a problem with is the twisting of facts to make cases that shouldn’t fit as precedent to fit, because certain people have a bigger agenda. The art of distinguishing (to prove a case cited as applicable) facts is just that an art. It allows people to say day is night sometimes,  and at least in their minds, and the minds of those who agree with the ruling,, think they got away with it. In time, it usually backfires. NEXT The original issue/point  which took place  in a discussion between Alberto and myself  was over the word precedent. A "precedent" only applies in cases where the facts are the same. So, given that facts are never the same, there is no such a thing as a real "precedent". It’s an oxymoron at best, oppression in its worse embodiment. Or, as it often happens, a substitute for clear thinking.

BTW the concept of precedence was began in Rome By Octavian (or Augustus (63 Bc-14 AD) precedence does exist. One has to begin to get an understanding of case analysis first. Very simple explanation is A person would want to know whether the same application of the law in the previous opinion i.e. the same holding, will be applied to the case you are involved with. This determination is made though two interrelated sets of comparisons:  A FACT COMPARISON and a RULE-OF-LAW COMPARISON. You are looking for opinions that are ON POINT, i.e. set of facts and rule of law that are as THE SAME  or close as possible to the case you have before you. (In spite of your opinion, there are many opinions that are similar The important point is, are they close enough that the judge pretty much has to rule in your favor. Facts + application of Rule of Law = Conclusion of Law. A conclusion of law reached by a court in an opinion is called a holding. it is binding on the parties to the litigation and can be used as precedent for similar disputes in future litigation. There is a term that is used in the legal profession "on all fours" [emphasis added] Suppose the years after an opinion is written, you are in a law library researching the case of a current client and you come across this opinion. You want to know whether the same application of law in the opinion, i.  e. , the same holding, will be applied by the Court to the client’s case. This determination is made through two interrelated  sets of comparisons: a fact comparison and a rule-of-law comparison.  You must compare the facts in the opinion with the facts of the client’s case.  ***More specifically, the comparison must be between the clients facts and the KEY facts in the opinion.***   You must also undertake a rule of law comparison.  We said earlier the courts interpret and apply one or more rule of law in her opinions.  When you work on a client’s case, you must also consider the rules of law.  You go through these two sets of comparisons between the opinion and the client’s case in order to make a prediction. If the facts and the rule of law and the client’s case at the same or substantially the same as those in the opinion, then the opinion is said to be ***ON ALL FOURS*** on all fours with the client’s case;  you can safely  predict that the holding in the opinion will be  applied the client’s case.  If the facts and rule on a client’s case are totally different, you’re equally safe in predicting holding in the opinion would not be applied the client. In between the two extremes is a gray area.  It is difficult to predict what Court will do when the opinion is somewhat different from, yet also somewhat similar to, the client’s case. The term case analysis refers to the techniques used in predicting the applicability of opinions. (SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Case Analysis and Fundamentals of Legal Writing. … read more »

Response:

MK. Topic: School vouchers and the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel… MK. Discussion deleted… AMERICANS UNITED PRAISES FEDERAL APPEALS COURT RULING AGAINST MANDATORY FUNDING OF RELIGIOUS EDUCATION Public Funds Should Not Be Used To Finance Religious Schooling, Group Says…

MK. Discussion deleted… MK. I predict a reversal if this gets to the USSC (without Kerry-appointed justices). School vouchers do not support  religious education, as in Locke versus Davey (involving a specifically religious course of instruction). School vouchers support alternatives to State-operated schools. To exclude accedited Church-operated schools from a school voucger program is to discriminate on the basis of religion, obviously. Bull Shit! With the same logic, if the state DOESN’T finance private road construction between me and my girlfriend, they are discriminating!

MK. ??? To "discriminate" is to detect differences. Where to build roads? Sensible planners discriminate between options on the basis of a cost-benefit analysis. How to apply the taxpayer’s K-12 education subsidy? Weigh the options. I was surprised by the USSC ruling in Locke, since the issues  resembled those in the "Witters" case, (post-secondary, and a specifically religious course of instruction). In "Witters", the court held that a post-secondary vocational training subsidy which dis-allowed training for the ministry was unconstitutionally discriminatory. "Locke" was also a post-secondary case, involving university education. I don’t see how the difference makes a diference. In any case, I don’t see how –either– applies to –general education– at accredited K-12 schools. I predict a reversal. * MAINE:  The first challenge to a state constitution after U.S. Supreme Court’s June choice ruling is now set.  Several Pine Tree State parents, tired of the state’s tuitioning program that includes all schools but those that are religious, have filed suit.  For almost 100 years Maine has permitted students in districts too small to support their own high schools to receive tuition to attend public, private, in-state or out-of-state schools of their choice.  In 1981, however, a law was passed excluding religious schools from the program….

MK. Discussion deleted… In other situations, the ruling ONLY applied in situations where adequate public education wasn’t available.

MK. That is the case. The exclusion of Church-operated schools is still discrimination on the basis of religion. The bottom line, we have NO responsiblity to fund YOUR religious indoctrination.

MK. I was raised in no church. I am no more a Christian than I am a Buddhist, Hindu, Jain, Muslim, or Zoroastrian. The way to teach tolerance of diversity is to tolerate diversity, seems to me. Take care. Homeschool if you can. http://www.rru.com/~meo/hs.minski.html (One page. Marvin Minsky comment on school. Please read this.) http://www.schoolchoices.org (Massive site. Useful links). http://www.worldbank.org/research/journals/wbro/obsfeb97/educate.htm http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=6853 http://econ-www.mit.edu/faculty/download_pdf.php?id=737 http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/pepg/ http://www.thegantelope.com/archives/cat_school_choice.html http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/index.html http://www.ncl.ac.uk/egwest/ http://www.edreform.com/_upload/NineLies.pdf. http://www.nlpc.org http://www.nrtw.org/d/big_labor_special_privileges.htm http://www.daycaresdontcare.org/ A book review by John Ray… http://jonjayray.netfirms.com/berg.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PRESS RELEASE  **  PRESS RELEASE  **  PRESS RELEASE For Immediate Release October 25, 2004 Americans United for Separation of Church and State www.au.org AMERICANS UNITED PRAISES FEDERAL APPEALS COURT RULING AGAINST MANDATORY FUNDING OF RELIGIOUS EDUCATION Public Funds Should Not Be Used To Finance Religious Schooling, Group Says A federal appeals court has rejected arguments that a Maine education law must be expanded to include funding for private religious schools. Americans United for Separation of Church and State had filed a friend-of-the-court-brief with the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, urging it to reject arguments that the U.S. Constitution requires Maine to fund private religious schools in the same manner it funds secular schools. "This is another blow to voucher advocates who argue that the government is constitutionally required to fund religious schools," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. "The courts have consistently rejected these backdoor voucher schemes." The Maine law under challenge provides tuition for students to attend any school in districts that do not have their own public schools. But the law bars school districts from paying tuition to any private religious school. Parents in Minot County who chose to send their children to a Catholic school sued the state, arguing the law unconstitutionally discriminated against them because of their religious beliefs. The 1st Circuit ruled Oct. 22 in Eulitt v. Maine that the state had legitimate "interests in concentrating limited state funds on its goal of providing secular education, avoiding entanglement, and allaying concerns about accountability that undoubtedly would accompany state oversight of parochial schools’ curricula and policies." The appeals court cited in its decision a 2004 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, which affirmed that state government may refuse to provide funding to religious schools to protect church-state separation.   In that decision, Locke v. Davey, the justices ruled that states couldn’t be required to extend scholarship aid to college students training to become members of the clergy. Americans United for Separation of Church and State is a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington, D.C. Founded in 1947, the organization educates Americans about the importance of church-state separation in the safeguarding religious freedom. MK. I predict a reversal if this gets to the USSC (without Kerry-appointed justices).

Do you realize what you just admitted to? You just admitted that it has nothing to do with law, history, the constitution but rather it has to do with the allegiance of certain judges and justices to their political parties, philosophy, politicians who appointed them rather then law, precedence, history and so on. That is a pretty major admittance on your part, thank you for being so honest and coming clean for once. Not a single one of the following cases really had anything to do with law, with precedence but rather with the political beliefs and agendas of certain USSC Justices. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cm0dav0m5hird75bi8oa98rfqte05eva… So based on your comments, one can say that vouncers aren’t "legally" constitutional, buyt rather have been declared "politically" constitutional by  a hand ful of political justices over the past 20 years and as such as just as likely to be decalred non constittuional when the high court swings back to the center and eventaully to the left again. Gee, dude, that is what I have been saying for some time now, remember this: Vouchers: Our Position http://members.tripod.com/~candst/vouposit.htm School vouchers do not support  religious education, as in Locke versus Davey (involving a specifically religious course of instruction).

Hey dippy, Locke v Davy was the case cited in  Eulitt v. Maine Department of Education. Too bad, so sad, you lose again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -:|School vouchers support alternatives to State-operated schools. To exclude accedited Church-operated schools from a school voucger program is to discriminate on the basis of religion, obviously.       * MAINE:  The first challenge to a state constitution after U.S. Supreme Court’s June choice ruling is now set.  Several Pine Tree State parents, tired of the state’s tuitioning program that includes all schools but those that are religious, have filed suit.  For almost 100 years Maine has permitted students in districts too small to support their own high schools to receive tuition to attend public, private, in-state or out-of-state schools of their choice.  In 1981, however, a law was passed excluding religious schools from the program.  This directly contradicts the Supreme Court’s June ruling that choices made by parents to send their children to religious schools using per-pupil allotments of public funds is constitutional.  Moreover, a law that excludes schools from a program simply because they are religious clearly discriminates against religious institutions, and is therefore unconstitutional.  This case could be an important bellwether for attempts to roll back anti-choice laws in other states.  We’ll be watching it closely.

This case has lost on the state level and now two levels of Federal courts:         Holmes v. Bush and Other Voucher Cases   http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=2943 April 26, 1999 Taxpayers May Not Be Forced to Pay for Religious  Schools, Maine’s Highest Court Says MAINE SUPREME COURT REJECTS PRIVATE RELIGIOUS SCHOOL VOUCHERS The Maine Supreme Court ruled Friday, April 23, that publicly funded voucher subsidies for private religious schools are unconstitutional. FEDERAL COURT OF APPEALS RULES AGAINST PRIVATE RELIGIOUS SCHOOL VOUCHERS         The U.S. First Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that voucher-style subsidies for private religious schools are unconstitutional.  June 1, 1999  Federal Court Vetoes Tax Dollars for Religious Education  in Maine From The Associated Press, 6/1/99: PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — A federal appeals court has upheld a Maine law that bars the state from paying students’ tuition at religious schools.  Eulitt v. Maine Department of Education, 2004 WL 423981 (D.Me. 2004) Legal Clips, March 2004 A federal district court has rejected a constitutional challenge to Maine

Internet Disinformation Agents and How They Operate!!

Question:

rk: bruce, you and others are being scammed by opportunists who understand the long range value of the book, tapes, and disks. My work poses a threat to the existing establishment

*****SPV…..Nonsense Ray.  You are in truth a non-event that is trying to convince himself that he is speical.  Ray how many followers do you have?  Two?  Tell us how many books do you sell?  Tell us why you think you know the truth?  All real questions from a real man and I would love to know the answer.

Response:

Re: Internet Disinformation Agents and How They Operate!!

bm:  It’s like your book, which was also needlessly expensive. Whoever’s doing your market analysis should be fired. rk: My book Journey Beyond Thought: Breaking the Bonds of the Conditioned Mind sold/sells for $7.00  Needlessly expensive? Interesting comment, wouldn’t you say since you NEVER bought the book. bm: It used to be on amazon.com for $193.14, but I see that it’s now available for around $30. rk: bruce, you and others are being scammed by opportunists who understand the long range value of the book, tapes, and disks. My work poses a threat to the existing establishment and the Satanic New World Order. I personally pulled the book back from all prior distributors and amazon.com as I understood the Establishment did not want this in the hands of the public. rk:  My price for Journey Beyond Thought: Breaking the Bonds of the Conditioned Mind, is, and always has been $7.00 + $1.50 S&H for Continental U.S. purchasers.  In fact, you can order it from me at that price TODAY.  Shipping and handling varies for foreign purchases, call for info.  See order form at: http://www.arkenterprises.com/orform2.htm rk:  If you’re paying more for my book, then you’ve run into opportunistic scalpers.   rk:  Ask yourself, why do these opportunists recognize value of the work and you disinformation folks exhaust yourselves attempting to discredit it? rk:  Hell, isn’t it? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0963839101 rk:  Bruce, your hypocrisy is showing!!! bm: Uh, thanks… I guess. Look, Ray, all I’m saying is that I (and surely many others here) would appreciate it if you’d just post your CD in RealAudio like you often have done in the past. It doesn’t cost anyone anything and you’ll get the word out to more people that way, and isn’t that the whole point of all of this? rk:  Intelligence and foresight in the face of the chaos and uncertainty coming to this country prevents me from doing what you ask. bm: Another advantage to this is it would totally foil the government/media sponsored/supported disinformation/mind control agents’ disc burning campaign. rk: Matthew 7-6: says:  "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. rk:  I cast such pearls almost daily on the Internet. Ole Matthew’s comments hold up don’t they? The swine (government/media sponsored/supported mind control/disinformation agents) have been busy for eight years conducting their destructive campaign and the oblivious Munchkins just sit by and permit it.  What does that say about a People who about to lose their country to Satanic mindcontrollers? rk:  Is AMERICA too dumbed-down to survive?  Looks that way!! Below are some recent examples of rabid dog/swine syndrome exhibited almost daily on these newsgroups/forums. DO NOT LISTEN BEFORE YOU VOTE!!  This CD contains the toxic thoughts of a k0oK of the Year. WARNING TO AN AWAKENING POPULACE!!!  Do NOT, under ANY circumstances allow your mind to be poisoned by this garrulous exercise in excessively verbose linguistic acrobatics. Act now!  Call the Josephine County Mental Hospital, there’s a kook on the loose! I wouldn’t let that ass anywhere near my children. arkenterprises is blocked on their computers just in case they might accidentally stumble across it. Why do you demand to see you wife dead? Why the hell do you hate her so much that you hysterically refuse to do even what can minimally be done to help her and possibly extend her life? Just what the hell did she DO to you that you are so desperate to see her dead and cold forever? Think very seriously about suicide and the vast amount of publicity that comes of it.good luck. bw RAY, dont prolong a miserable existence for a vain fear of upsetting your maker,he has endowed you with the power of suicide, thus, you can conclude that the option is yours and yours alone.Van Gogh was practically unknown till he pulled the trigger on himself, then world fame was betowed on him. Dont throw that gun away Ray, show this world what real courage is,X Suicide is a perfectly honourable way of ending your life,you are in command of everything,your wife will be highly delighted that you at last took responsibility and did somthing worthwhile gutsy and utterly selfless.The social security department will celebrate this utterly selfless act of heroism.Come on now is the time.X Please write to the Josephine County Sheriff’s Office, and ask that they arrest Ray Karczewski as soon as possible for driving without a license. Does not Oregon have a bestiality law? Ray should be arrested for unnatural acts with sheep and any other domestic animals. The JoCo Deputies need to go on a steak-out to catch the K in the act. STOP THIS CRIMINAL TODAY!!!! The Prophecies have been fulfilled!       << "Good! Give in to your anger, KiSSer. Feel the power of the Dark Side of the Force. Now strike down your father, Raymond Karczewski, and" Re: KSS IS DHARMATROLL (was:LAST WARNING TO BUDDHIST NEWSGROUPS (was Re: ‘KSS is harmless psycho, 1000-to-1′ says UN inspector)) Author:  DharmaTroll By the way, KSS really stands fro Karczewski-Sun-Solway, as I took the best of Raymond Kookooski, Liguo Sun, and my old arch-nemesis Kevin Solway to form the KSS pseudonym. And if you look at that soc.culture.greek ng, you’ll see tons of hatred and thrashing about just like KSS, and I thought he would easily pass as a typical middle-eastern terrorist poster. Oh, well. At least I can still have fun with Ray Karczewski using my other characters, Rev. Hugh Morles, Rev. Love, and my favorite, Rev. Paul Villa. Poor Ray still thinks that crazy old Mubul is all those people. Yee hee hee. I think Rev. Chad Hominem ll be next. Or is that too obvious? But Ray Kookoobird is much too stupid to catch puns in Latin, wouldn’t ya think? All I have to do is conjure up a few more rev’runds and I’ll be ready for tax-exempt non-profit religion status, eh? rk:  WAKE UP AMERICA AND TAKE BACK YOUR COUNTRY FROM SATANIC MINDCONTROLLERS:          Raymond Ronald Karczewski

Asks your Doc, is he a Buddhist Sin halese then run!!!!

Question:

I know you pervert are for some reason motivated to deliberately add usenet group soc.culture.nordic when cross posting these insane texts. Stop it. Try penis enlargement and consult an able shrink. And above all,  get lost homo. Newsgroups:

soc.culture.sri-lanka,soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.singapore – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Newsgroups: soc.culture.sri-lanka,soc.culture.new-zealand,soc.culture.singapore NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.49.252 Mother fears son will be ‘recruited’ By Andra Jackson September 27, 2004

This is not the first time Sinhala Buddhist Docs are terrorizing New Zealanders. This is the second time in recent times. Sinhala stupid Buddhist couldn’t compete with Tamils in education have to bring standardization to become doctors. Now you know what is happening to New Zealanders. Just imagine what will happen to Tamils in Sri Lanka. Sin hales call themselves fucked lion. In recent times they have drink Tamil blood and calling Tamils as terrorist for fighting Sin hala terrorist. Sinhales are famous of killing Tamils in hundreds of thousand deceive the world and called US to get of Iraq and war criminals. They are famous of writing whatever happened 800 years ago with so-called horror book about lion fuck. Sinhales called call themselves as Arians and still look black and send their wives to Arab to get fucked and whitish the skin as they did with Portuguese and English. – KS. Doctor banned after groping shop workers http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.asp?id=43519&c=w Former Greymouth doctor ordered to seek treatment for sexual misconduct after being found guilty of sexual abuse 27 September 2004 A former Greymouth doctor has been censured and ordered to undergo treatment for sexual misconduct after groping South Island shop assistants. Nayan Prasanna Karunasekera was convicted in the Invercargill District Court for sexually abusing three women while on holiday in Queenstown last year. The Grey Base Hospital doctor had recently arrived from Sri Lanka with his wife and children when the offending occurred. While visiting souvenir and gift shops he persuaded shop assistants to let him examine their complexions. He used the opportunity to place the women’s hands on his genital area. In another incident he groped a woman’s breasts while she was showing him clothing for his wife. Karunasekera, who had temporary registration with the Medical Council, has been banned from re-registering until he completes a STOP programme

Response:

Mother fears son will be ‘recruited’ By Andra Jackson September 27, 2004

This is not the first time Sinhala Buddhist Docs are terrorizing New Zealanders. This is the second time in recent times. Sinhala stupid Buddhist couldn’t compete with Tamils in education have to bring standardization to become doctors. Now you know what is happening to New Zealanders. Just imagine what will happen to Tamils in Sri Lanka. Sin hales call themselves fucked lion. In recent times they have drink Tamil blood and calling Tamils as terrorist for fighting Sin hala terrorist. Sinhales are famous of killing Tamils in hundreds of thousand deceive the world and called US to get of Iraq and war criminals. They are famous of writing whatever happened 800 years ago with so-called horror book about lion fuck. Sinhales called call themselves as Arians and still look black and send their wives to Arab to get fucked and whitish the skin as they did with Portuguese and English. – KS. Doctor banned after groping shop workers http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.asp?id=43519&c=w Former Greymouth doctor ordered to seek treatment for sexual misconduct after being found guilty of sexual abuse 27 September 2004 A former Greymouth doctor has been censured and ordered to undergo treatment for sexual misconduct after groping South Island shop assistants. Nayan Prasanna Karunasekera was convicted in the Invercargill District Court for sexually abusing three women while on holiday in Queenstown last year. The Grey Base Hospital doctor had recently arrived from Sri Lanka with his wife and children when the offending occurred. While visiting souvenir and gift shops he persuaded shop assistants to let him examine their complexions. He used the opportunity to place the women’s hands on his genital area. In another incident he groped a woman’s breasts while she was showing him clothing for his wife. Karunasekera, who had temporary registration with the Medical Council, has been banned from re-registering until he completes a STOP programme

Response:

Bryan Adrian's DRUID DRAMA

Question:

The Druids were not "overrun" by Vampires swarming from the Tibetan and Mongolian and Himalayan heights [volcanoes], they were "infiltrated" … and quite some time before Boudicca and/or 56 BC. Jamal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like his slide idea with the subtext …  [below, reproduced from the play notes] A friend of a friend went to THE CITADEL University during the Cold War and told me that a David Adrian taught air defense [pre- and post-satellite era] there and that he was the aide-de-camp for General Mark Clark. And, that David Adrian is not unfamiliar with BOTH orders of the Masons … yes, there is not only one Masonic global network, there are two. Bryan Adrian has been published in the Aran Isles off Scotland-Ireland, a kind of spiritual homebase for those with nostalgia for the Druids before they were overrun by vampires in the 1st Century BC.  His poem is titled NEW WORLD ORDER and it is pretty good. AISLING–NEW WORLD ORDER http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/aisling/bryanadrian.html [Produce a slide show the best you can of images like these, or some such similar scenarios, from your past].         Slides of secret Australian telecommunications installations, underground, near the AEC in Gaithersburg, MD, just outside of Washington, DC. Slides of the power lines, enormous power towers, and ominous wires, leading directly to the Atomic Energy Commission in Germantown, MD.         Slides of Valentin’s Bulgarian commandos [former Deputy Minister of Defense] literally bolting the publisher inside his "trusted" Bulgarian fianc