OT: Humor

Question:

Very good, Karen!   May I steal it? Jack

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do the characters go when I use my backspace or delete them on my PC? ANSWER: The characters go to different places, depending on whom you ask: The Catholic Church’s approach to characters: The nice characters go to Heaven, where they are bathed in the light of happiness. The naughty characters are punished for their sins. Naughty characters are those involved in the creation of naughty words, such as "breast," "sex" and contraception." The Buddhist explanation: If a character has lived rightly, and its karma is good, then after it has been deleted it will be reincarnated as a different, higher character. Those funny characters above the numbers on your keyboard will become numbers, numbers will become letters, and lower -case letters will become upper-case. The 20th-century bitter cynical nihilist explanation: Who cares? It doesn’t really matter if they’re on the page, deleted, undeleted, underlined, etc. It’s all the same. The Mac user’s explanation: All the characters written on a PC and then deleted go to straight to PC hell. If you’re using a PC, you can probably see the deleted characters, because you’re in PC hell also. Stephen King’s explanation: Every time you hit the (Del) key you unleash a tiny monster inside the cursor, who tears the poor unsuspecting characters to shreds, drinks their blood, then eats them, bones and all. Hah, hah, hah! Dave Barry’s explanation: The deleted characters are shipped to Battle Creek, Michigan, where they’re made into Pop-Tart filling; this explains why Pop-Tarts are so flammable, while cheap imitations are not flammable. I’m not making this up. IBM’s explanation: The characters are not real. They exist only on the screen when they are needed, as concepts, so to delete them is merely to de-conceptualize them. Get a life. PETA’s (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) explanation: You’ve been DELETING them??? Can’t you hear them SCREAMING??? Why don’t you go CLUB some BABY SEALS while wearing a MINK, you pig!!!!

Response:

(Snort) Or how about, "Tax cuts for the characters with Capital Letters will trickle down jobs and better conditions for the lower-case characters!" "Read my lips"! Aaaaaaaarrrrrr.

:

: :   Any politician:  "We must provide care for out deleted characters." : : Ha! Not too likely. If we’re talking about most US-American politicians, : it’d be more like, "We need to cut our program that provides care for our : deleted characters". : : Joyce : : Au contraire, Joyce.  Politicians–the ones that get elected anyway–*cut* : taxes and wasteful government spending (which will likely include the care : for deleted characters), but they will never directly threaten the welfare : of a voter.  Not the ones I’ve followed anyway.  I offer no contest to the : practical truth of your observation, I don’t think they would ever be so : honest as to actually tell us what they have in mind, however.  Especially : not before an election. :     Cheers, : Jack : :

Response:

(Snort) Or how about, "Tax cuts for the characters with Capital Letters will trickle down jobs and better conditions for the lower-case characters!" "Read my lips"! Aaaaaaaarrrrrr.

If we start talking politics, it will take the fun out of this group.  I pass Cheers, Jack

Response:

Wow, Jack, you have a great sense of humour! Thanks for the laugh. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been thinkins about this, Karen.  The list could be endless…or at least longer. Your Tax Accountant:  "Where do you want them to go?"

Response:

Wow, Jack, you have a great sense of humour! Thanks for the laugh. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

Aaah…  (digs toe in dirt)… shucks.  But thanks. Cheers, Jack

Response:

  If we start talking politics, it will take the fun out of this group.  I   pass "Au contraire", Jack – you’re already in it. Joyce

Response:

Karen, we left out Christiane Amanpour who would answer: "It is time I dispell these ugly rumors that wars break out, governments fall, and civilizations vanish, BECAUSE I appear somewhere.  I am a skilled, professional news reporter, NOT A PARIAH, and I did not CAUSE your characters to disappear."     Cheers, Jack

Response:

[Woops!  Do you know just how close *cut* is to *send*?  Sorry] Been thinkins about this, Karen.  The list could be endless…or at least longer. Your Tax Accountant:  "Where do you want them to go?" Any politician:  "We must provide care for out deleted characters." Most  kids:  "I donno, I didn’t have them last." The ubiquitious grief counselor:  "We all feel badly they are gone." Your boss:  "Find them right away.  I want a full report on my desk, first thing in the morning." The cops:  "You ‘d better tell us what you’ve done with them." NASA:  "We’re looking into the character disaster and forming a blue ribbon investigating team." Bill Clinton:  "I swear, I never deleted a character." CIA:  "What missing characters?" Barbra Walters:  "Tonight, the missing characters; an exclusive report." Larry King:   "Tonight, the missing characters; an exclusive interview." ACLU:  "We are entering suit today to bring to an end the unfair deletion of characters." Cheers, Jack

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [Woops!  Do you know just how close *cut* is to *send*?  Sorry] Been thinkins about this, Karen.  The list could be endless…or at least longer. Your Tax Accountant:  "Where do you want them to go?" Any politician:  "We must provide care for out deleted characters." Most  kids:  "I donno, I didn’t have them last." The ubiquitious grief counselor:  "We all feel badly they are gone." Your boss:  "Find them right away.  I want a full report on my desk, first thing in the morning." The cops:  "You ‘d better tell us what you’ve done with them." NASA:  "We’re looking into the character disaster and forming a blue ribbon investigating team." Bill Clinton:  "I swear, I never deleted a character." CIA:  "What missing characters?" Barbra Walters:  "Tonight, the missing characters; an exclusive report." Larry King:   "Tonight, the missing characters; an exclusive interview." ACLU:  "We are entering suit today to bring to an end the unfair deletion of characters." Cheers, Jack

LOL!! These are great Jack!!  I especially loved the kids response. Karen

Response:

Tnks –JB

Response:

  Any politician:  "We must provide care for out deleted characters." Ha! Not too likely. If we’re talking about most US-American politicians, it’d be more like, "We need to cut our program that provides care for our deleted characters". Joyce

Response:

  Any politician:  "We must provide care for out deleted characters." Ha! Not too likely. If we’re talking about most US-American politicians, it’d be more like, "We need to cut our program that provides care for our deleted characters". Joyce

Au contraire, Joyce.  Politicians–the ones that get elected anyway–*cut* taxes and wasteful government spending (which will likely include the care for deleted characters), but they will never directly threaten the welfare of a voter.  Not the ones I’ve followed anyway.  I offer no contest to the practical truth of your observation, I don’t think they would ever be so honest as to actually tell us what they have in mind, however.  Especially not before an election.     Cheers, Jack

Response:

LOL, we had a similar thread on a forum recently about what happens to emoticons

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do the characters go when I use my backspace or delete them on my PC? ANSWER: The characters go to different places, depending on whom you ask: PETA’s (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) explanation: You’ve been DELETING them??? Can’t you hear them SCREAMING??? Why don’t you go CLUB some BABY SEALS while wearing a MINK, you pig!!!!

Response:

I loved it! Thanks. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

Where do the characters go when I use my backspace or delete them on my PC? ANSWER: The characters go to different places, depending on whom you ask:

<snip

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do the characters go when I use my backspace or delete them on my PC? ANSWER: The characters go to different places, depending on whom you ask: The Catholic Church’s approach to characters: The nice characters go to Heaven, where they are bathed in the light of happiness. The naughty characters are punished for their sins. Naughty characters are those involved in the creation of naughty words, such as "breast," "sex" and contraception." The Buddhist explanation: If a character has lived rightly, and its karma is good, then after it has been deleted it will be reincarnated as a different, higher character. Those funny characters above the numbers on your keyboard will become numbers, numbers will become letters, and lower -case letters will become upper-case. The 20th-century bitter cynical nihilist explanation: Who cares? It doesn’t really matter if they’re on the page, deleted, undeleted, underlined, etc. It’s all the same. The Mac user’s explanation: All the characters written on a PC and then deleted go to straight to PC hell. If you’re using a PC, you can probably see the deleted characters, because you’re in PC hell also. Stephen King’s explanation: Every time you hit the (Del) key you unleash a tiny monster inside the cursor, who tears the poor unsuspecting characters to shreds, drinks their blood, then eats them, bones and all. Hah, hah, hah! Dave Barry’s explanation: The deleted characters are shipped to Battle Creek, Michigan, where they’re made into Pop-Tart filling; this explains why Pop-Tarts are so flammable, while cheap imitations are not flammable. I’m not making this up. IBM’s explanation: The characters are not real. They exist only on the screen when they are needed, as concepts, so to delete them is merely to de-conceptualize them. Get a life. PETA’s (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) explanation: You’ve been DELETING them??? Can’t you hear them SCREAMING??? Why don’t you go CLUB some BABY SEALS while wearing a MINK, you pig!!!!

Response:

Where do the characters go when I use my backspace or delete them on my PC? ANSWER: The characters go to different places, depending on whom you ask: The Catholic Church’s approach to characters: The nice characters go to Heaven, where they are bathed in the light of happiness. The naughty characters are punished for their sins. Naughty characters are those involved in the creation of naughty words, such as "breast," "sex" and contraception." The Buddhist explanation: If a character has lived rightly, and its karma is good, then after it has been deleted it will be reincarnated as a different, higher character. Those funny characters above the numbers on your keyboard will become numbers, numbers will become letters, and lower -case letters will become upper-case. The 20th-century bitter cynical nihilist explanation: Who cares? It doesn’t really matter if they’re on the page, deleted, undeleted, underlined, etc. It’s all the same. The Mac user’s explanation: All the characters written on a PC and then deleted go to straight to PC hell. If you’re using a PC, you can probably see the deleted characters, because you’re in PC hell also. Stephen King’s explanation: Every time you hit the (Del) key you unleash a tiny monster inside the cursor, who tears the poor unsuspecting characters to shreds, drinks their blood, then eats them, bones and all. Hah, hah, hah! Dave Barry’s explanation: The deleted characters are shipped to Battle Creek, Michigan, where they’re made into Pop-Tart filling; this explains why Pop-Tarts are so flammable, while cheap imitations are not flammable. I’m not making this up. IBM’s explanation: The characters are not real. They exist only on the screen when they are needed, as concepts, so to delete them is merely to de-conceptualize them. Get a life. PETA’s (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) explanation: You’ve been DELETING them??? Can’t you hear them SCREAMING??? Why don’t you go CLUB some BABY SEALS while wearing a MINK, you pig!!!!

Response:

This is SO funny! Look it up & enjoy! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343 Flippy in Melbourne, Australia. My Cats: http://www.flippyscatpage.com — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Be sure to scroll down and real all the text.  BTW, Flippy forgot the BW.  It is a must! — Joy Life is what happens to you while you are planning to do something else.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is SO funny! Look it up & enjoy! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343 Flippy in Melbourne, Australia. My Cats: http://www.flippyscatpage.com — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

This is SO funny! Look it up & enjoy! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343 Flippy in Melbourne, Australia. My Cats: http://www.flippyscatpage.com — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

I love the final update. This guy is a stitch.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is SO funny! Look it up & enjoy! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343 Flippy in Melbourne, Australia. My Cats: http://www.flippyscatpage.com — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). I love the final update. This guy is a stitch.

Notice his eBay nickname and email address are for a publishing company.  If he doesn’t already have a job as a writer, he soon will have one! Jill

Response:

After the American election humor (and this is original, BTW): Pres. Bush’s plan to save the American economy! It seems that in secret, Pres. Bush has been working on the budget, and has come up with a plan to save hundreds of millions of dollars, or more, each year! He’s going to *eliminate* the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)! There will still be payroll deductions, and Federal ‘tax’ forms each year, but all of the payroll deductions, and any checks for ‘taxes’ you owe at the end of every year will go DIRECTLY to Halliburton Oil, elimination the thousands of people who have been diverting money, through various complicated, and expensive schemes, to Halliburton Oil! Think of the savings! The budget could be balanced in a few years! No need to invade oil-rich countries, ever again! ~~~~~~ Life without cats would be only marginally worth living. TC  and the unmercifully, relentlessly sweet calico kitty, Kenzie. How you behave towards cats here below determines your status in Heaven. – Robert Heinlein

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the American election humor (and this is original, BTW): Pres. Bush’s plan to save the American economy! It seems that in secret, Pres. Bush has been working on the budget, and has come up with a plan to save hundreds of millions of dollars, or more, each year! He’s going to *eliminate* the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)! There will still be payroll deductions, and Federal ‘tax’ forms each year, but all of the payroll deductions, and any checks for ‘taxes’ you owe at the end of every year will go DIRECTLY to Halliburton Oil, elimination the thousands of people who have been diverting money, through various complicated, and expensive schemes, to Halliburton Oil! Think of the savings! The budget could be balanced in a few years! No need to invade oil-rich countries, ever again!

Amusing, but you’re flogging a dead horse. Unfortunately. The Shrub is talking about tax reform though, sounds like a flat tax. You know who this will favour.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the American election humor (and this is original, BTW): Pres. Bush’s plan to save the American economy! It seems that in secret, Pres. Bush has been working on the budget, and has come up with a plan to save hundreds of millions of dollars, or more, each year! He’s going to *eliminate* the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)! There will still be payroll deductions, and Federal ‘tax’ forms each year, but all of the payroll deductions, and any checks for ‘taxes’ you owe at the end of every year will go DIRECTLY to Halliburton Oil, elimination the thousands of people who have been diverting money, through various complicated, and expensive schemes, to Halliburton Oil! Think of the savings! The budget could be balanced in a few years! No need to invade oil-rich countries, ever again! Amusing, but you’re flogging a dead horse. Unfortunately. The Shrub is talking about tax reform though, sounds like a flat tax. You know who this will favour.

Thank you so much for bringing the ‘real world’ into my joke. It’s a real big plus……. Did you happen to see the title ‘Humor’ on my post? Go to a political forum to  get on your soapbox  and do your preaching.  I don’t need it. I was just trying just trying to have a little fun, here. Excuuuse me!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -After the American election humor (and this is original, BTW): Pres. Bush’s plan to save the American economy! It seems that in secret, Pres. Bush has been working on the budget, and has come up with a plan to save hundreds of millions of dollars, or more, each year! He’s going to *eliminate* the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)! There will still be payroll deductions, and Federal ‘tax’ forms each year, but all of the payroll deductions, and any checks for ‘taxes’ you owe at the end of every year will go DIRECTLY to Halliburton Oil, elimination the thousands of people who have been diverting money, through various complicated, and expensive schemes, to Halliburton Oil! Think of the savings! The budget could be balanced in a few years! No need to invade oil-rich countries, ever again!

Cool. Works for me. Halliburton was our largest business donor to the shelter this year.   Sherry

Response:

Us poor people??? DHelderman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the American election humor (and this is original, BTW): Pres. Bush’s plan to save the American economy! It seems that in secret, Pres. Bush has been working on the budget, and has come up with a plan to save hundreds of millions of dollars, or more, each year! He’s going to *eliminate* the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)! There will still be payroll deductions, and Federal ‘tax’ forms each year, but all of the payroll deductions, and any checks for ‘taxes’ you owe at the end of every year will go DIRECTLY to Halliburton Oil, elimination the thousands of people who have been diverting money, through various complicated, and expensive schemes, to Halliburton Oil! Think of the savings! The budget could be balanced in a few years! No need to invade oil-rich countries, ever again! Amusing, but you’re flogging a dead horse. Unfortunately. The Shrub is talking about tax reform though, sounds like a flat tax. You know who this will favour.

Response:

Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

Didn’t we do this before?  I seem to recall that we tried to have as long of a thread as possible on it, and ended up with over 120 replies. We are NOT normal people, which is probably why we hang out in here. Pam S. hoping that we don’t start this over again

Response:

Start what all over again? (Looking about with puzzled look on face) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again. Didn’t we do this before?  I seem to recall that we tried to have as long of a thread as possible on it, and ended up with over 120 replies. We are NOT normal people, which is probably why we hang out in here. Pam S. hoping that we don’t start this over again

Response:

ROFLOL! Oh, Flippy, that is wonderful. It’s a keeper. Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently

<snip

Response:

LOL!  Whoever wrote this is a long-time newsgroup participant. — Joy "You can never do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late." _Ralph Waldo Emerson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it’s "lightbulb" or "light bulb" … another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy 4 to say "didn’t we go through this already a short time ago?" 43 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs" 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

Response:

Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it’s "lightbulb" or "light bulb" … another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy 4 to say "didn’t we go through this already a short time ago?" 43 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs" 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

Response:

Stacey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it’s "lightbulb" or "light bulb" … another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy 4 to say "didn’t we go through this already a short time ago?" 43 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs" 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

Response:

It’s funny ’cause it’s true!  ROFL! TJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: How many posters to an Internet forum does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it’s "lightbulb" or "light bulb" … another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy 4 to say "didn’t we go through this already a short time ago?" 43 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs" 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

Response:

The Washington Post’s Style Invitational once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. Here are this year’s winners:

Great ones, Victor.  Thanks. Sam, closely supervised by Mistletoe

Response:

Love it! Suz

Response:

And the pick of the literature: 18. Ignoranus: A person who’s both stupid and an asshole.

ROTFLMAO – this one does it for me! Purrs, G & the TT

Response:

I particularly like caterpallor. I’ve sent it to my brother, thanks Victor. Tweed

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Washington Post’s Style Invitational once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. Here are this year’s winners: 1. Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. 2. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. 3. Bozone: The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future. 4. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid. 5. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period. 6. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very thin and very high. 7. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it. 8. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. 9. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. 10. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.) 11. Karmageddon: It’s like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right?  And then, like, the Earth explodes and it’s like, a serious bummer. 12. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you. 13. Glibido: All talk and no action. 14. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly. 15. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you’ve accidentally walked through a spider web. 16. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out. 17. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a grub in the fruit you’re eating. And the pick of the literature: 18. Ignoranus: A person who’s both stupid and an asshole.

ROTFLMAOWTIME.  OK, I’m adopting some of these into my vocabulary!  ; Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

The Washington Post’s Style Invitational once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. Here are this year’s winners: 1. Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. 2. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. 3. Bozone: The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future. 4. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid. 5. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period. 6. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very thin and very high. 7. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it. 8. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. 9. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. 10. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.) 11. Karmageddon: It’s like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right?  And then, like, the Earth explodes and it’s like, a serious bummer. 12. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you. 13. Glibido: All talk and no action. 14. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly. 15. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you’ve accidentally walked through a spider web. 16. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out. 17. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a grub in the fruit you’re eating. And the pick of the literature: 18. Ignoranus: A person who’s both stupid and an asshole. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

Schizo-affective

Question:

If I am Schizo-affective. Does that mean I belong in this Newsgroup? And what does Schizo-affective mean? Can I still drink coffee?

Response:

If caffeine couldn’t counteract the sedative effects of the meds you’re on, you’d be arrested as a meth-freak. "whacko" <mdora…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:I4tte.12475$kj5.11773@trnddc03 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If I am Schizo-affective. > Does that mean I belong in this Newsgroup? > And what does Schizo-affective mean? > Can I still drink coffee?

Response:

      Benedril, diphenhydramine is the antidote for dopamine blockers. http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

whacko wrote: > If I am Schizo-affective. > Does that mean I belong in this Newsgroup? > And what does Schizo-affective mean? > Can I still drink coffee?

Schizoaffective means you have both schizophrenia and a mood disorder; either bipolar or depression.

Response:

"A Fourforty" <spds…@cox.net> wrote in message

news:pKDte.1710$gt5.855@fed1read02… > whacko wrote: >> If I am Schizo-affective. >> Does that mean I belong in this Newsgroup? >> And what does Schizo-affective mean? >> Can I still drink coffee? > Schizoaffective means you have both schizophrenia and a mood disorder; > either bipolar or depression.

That’s what my doctor say I have and I am here.  Coffee is good, especially if you feel a little tired.  I hear tell that it has some magic ingredient that can be quite a pick me up.

Response:

A 440 hz.  the middle A above middle C in the Western equal temperment scale. all other notes are based on A 440. 440 cycles per second.  peaks and troughs. m.

Response:

      The 1982 Merck Manual give a list of poisons and their antidotes in the back of the book. This included drugs that can be OD’ed. It gave diphenhydramine, which is in Benedril and Sominex, both available without a prescription, as the antidote for phenothiazines, which are dopamine blockers. A recent movie I saw about a schizpophrenic, falsely depicted Respiradol as being a pleasant dope that hoods would like to sell on the street, but it named diphenhydramine as the antidote for overdose. It’s worth the try. http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

       Schizo-affective means that a person’s affects, demeanor, conforms to the present definition of  "schizophrenia". Today "schizophrenia", which in Greek only means scattter brained, is defined as having too much dopamine. Anyone, by repeatedly  "spiking" (causing to surge) their own God given dopamine encourage their brains to produce more and more dopamine and come to fall under the definition of being a schizophrenic. In this case Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who knows and uses techniques that spike his own dopamine, is an official schizophrenic. Just Transcendental Meditation alone repeatedly spikes dopamine. Other secret soceties who use that "Lost Word" also repeatedly spike their dopamine. The Dalai Lama also qualifies to be classified an official schizophrenic.                            The psychiatric establishment, which is more an exclusive ideological political party than "real medicine", decided to define schizophrenia as having too much dopamine in order to justify the use of dopamine blockers to disable independent thinkers with a preoccupation with the agony of dopamine blockers. To support this, Parkenson’s disease has been declared to be non-genetc, uninheritable, so that any schizophrenics with Parkenson’s Disease in their backgrounds would have no excuse whatsoever for refusing dopamine blockers. The fact is, for all living things everything is half genetics and half environment. And, the public has been lead to believe by every means of propaganda that dopamine blockers are pleasant sedatives, dope. The general public policy of establised psychiatry is deceit, LIES. Psychiatry has a war of exploitation against the public, for, Sun Tsu said, "The primary essential principle of warfare is deceit". This is war! http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

"whacko" <mdora…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:I4tte.12475$kj5.11773@trnddc03… > If I am Schizo-affective. > Does that mean I belong in this Newsgroup? > And what does Schizo-affective mean? > Can I still drink coffee?

There is a newsgroup for schizoaffective – started by someone from this newsgroup alt.support.schizoaffective

Response:

"Traveller" <the.travel…@here.com> wrote in message

news:yZVte.22331$jS3.14318@newsfe2-win.ntli.net… > alt.support.schizoaffective

i guess i’m technically sz-affective, since i have major depression.  but my doctor used the terminology from the older DSM. it’s still not clear whether i have schizophrenia.  but that’s what they are treating me for.  could be a real bad case of depression. i’m sure the terms will be renamed in a future (or the next) DSM. m.

Response:

     Have you no feeling of rebellion against the injustice that is inflicted upon you? I have been committed to many locked wards, and escaped from being forced into many more, throughout my 60 years and I was never able to organize any real "revolutionary" movement among the homeless, or among us supposed schizophrenics, Schizo-affectives.      Are you actually normal and I abnoral? Or, am I actually normal and you abnormal? According to the latest definition of "psychosis", the inability to adjust to "society", you people are adjusted; I am not. Are you all under drugs that have put you in so much torment that your only concern is the next possible perk? When I was under those drugs (dopamine blockers) my thoughts were concerned about how to achieve the easiest suicide. THEY haven’t been able to force me on those drugs for many years now. But, THEY (now from the Brogan Clinic in the Boston VA) are now right on my case to take them. See my recent answer to Gammag. I have forwarded it to another "schizophrenic" like myself so he can use it too. He welcomes your comments at lahun…@yahoo.com . You see, I’m not alone. There are many other so called schizophrenics who fight back, but not yet enough for a revolution. http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

Society was a psychopath that needs not exist anymore. Society doesn’t exist, really, it’s an illusion. Maybe we should have a Gaggle! The Human Gaggle!

Response:

      You’re right . "Society doesn’t exist. There are many so called "societies" where "society is said to be absolute. And, some of the "societies" here "hear voices". http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

Michael A. I’m 58, a vet like yourself, and have also ran into attempts to take my "treatment" outfrom my own judgement and enforce medication and involunatary commitment because they interpreted my love and enthusiasm as nutso. I respomd a lot to posts but am shy of new comers (like you) as they often are not what they appear to be, pretty often. I believe you are who you say. Now that I see your postings over time. I wasn’t ignoring you. I read you. I was just giving you time before I risked myself. Many newcomers are time bombs before they decide to recklessly flame people who I feel are members and long term mutually supporting szers…or not szers…whatever. My loyalties are with those I have relations over time. I live alone, reasonably satisfied, stuggle financially, I keep the real meds in my cupboard and rely on alternative coping strategies. If I need em, the rel meds, I’ll take em. The dopamine blockers are simply poison for me. One, I’m a musician and under meds I literally wander off while playing and lose track of what I’m doing, I simply faulter to a stop. This is totally unacceptable. Two, I love reading. Under the dopamine blockers I was unable to get involved in a good book. Three, for me they make it so my voices don’t mumble. They become real clear and distinct bordering on, or actually becoming, audio hullucinations, not just head voices. Of course they are not as chronic at the same time, is that an improvement? Why in the name of all thats sane would I trade off my music and my simple pleasure of reading so the Doc can feel satisfied he’s helped me???? And then face what seems to be loud clear, real world voices????? Although, I hasten to add, not as constant. So I have an idea of where you’re coming from. I’m with you. I agree. It appears they got you worse then they got me. You take any suppliments or use chiropractic, acupunture, yoga,meditation etc? Damo

Response:

"Damo XXIIIrd" <damod…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:13675-42C094D5-902@storefull-3233.bay.webtv.net… > Two, I love reading. Under the dopamine blockers I was unable to get > involved in a good book.

i’m now on 15 mg Zyprexa, 30 mg on bad days.  i can hardly read.  i can hardly do anything.  i’m getting the SSRIs out of my system.  maybe i’ll feel better after that.  i am tapering off. m.

Response:

Dear  Damo:       You have a great URL I saw last year. I just gave up on this site last fall and went on to other sites. I’ve been here before.The Twenty Fifth didn’t go to Nam unitl November of 1965. I was in the hospital in October of 1965, so I didn’t see any action. I had 71 "cold turkey" electric shock treatments without anesthetic. Why 71? One day THEY gave me two in one day. So, my episodic memory was devastated. It’s like I was born in that "snakepit". Like a withdrawing drunk I don’t like to talk about what I don’t remember. But, as THEY learned the hard way, the intellectual memory wasn’t damaged.       A corrupt organization, influential in the governmnt, back then, zeroed in on me for a term paper I wrote in highschool, where I got a 98% for it. Apparently the teacher of that course sold copies of my term paper to college students. The offended organizatioon searched out the author of that paper, me , and finally caught up with me. THEY gave me Hell. THEY were using LSD in an attempt to cure "scihzophrenia" in the Sixties and gave me the real "Clockwork Orange", 1729, treatment, idealisticly, to destroy the personality and build a new one of their choice, but THEY only created a Hellian. I remeber that every other time I die I go back and do it over; but, I’m almost willing to do it again to get my home and inheritance back. I remember that next time I am due to wake up on September 17, 1970, where I collapsed after getting stung by a bee. I’m allergic to bees.  I have a hole in timespace there. It’s the time after that when I go back to Hell for about a thousand years and resurrect in that "snakepit". I was much happier when I lived alone. I was free. But it was Pentecostal or homeless; and, I’m a slave here with no First , Fourth  or Thirteenth Amendment rights. Pentecostals say that it was "demons" who planted those memories in my brain. But, it is a tremendous duration, having gone back 72 times, 36 of them to spend about 1000 years in Hell, switching bodies with people in torment. You see, when that psychiatric victim in Clocwork Orange was forced to watch films of Auschwitz, he actually experienced everyone’s torment, going backward and forward in time, living each persons torment. This actual information was classified at the time this movie was made. It just made me as "expedient" as a real devil. "Demon"? The word demon means group spirit in Greek. It comes from the root "dem" from which we get the word democracy. I’m surely no group spirit. I fight group spirits, real demons. "We don’t fight flesh and blood; we fight powers and principalities". That’s, the groups spirits of suprasocietal living systems and societies.       THEY really messed up the natural system for me. I remember the life before my real birth. I was the absolute ruler of a small tribe of nomads, and, I earned a hell of a lot of evil karma. Back then I died of a stab through the liver by a sword. I was brought down into a more natural Hell where I had a fire body in a world of fire and the itch compensated for our "activities". I don’t think I ever had so much pleasure in my existence; but, a little blue sparklie thing draged me up out of there and forced my birth here where my evil karma returned to me in the Army. I think you can cancel out into nothingness down there, so I’m not so scared of Hell. I’d settle for nonexistence, which is theoretically possible.            Hell? "Been there, done that". I know scientifcally what it is. I have written much about it and have asked Dr. Lahunkun, who lives in Maine, to write about it to his widespread audience. I escaped from Massachusetts to Maine where I found "sanctuary" for many happier years. Maine would not extradite me back to Massachusetts for commitment. But, I went broke by divorce from a girl from Virginia, and you can’t get theyaaah from heeeah in Maine wihout a caaa. So, with the "heat" off, after all these years, it’s back in Massachusetts with my closest living relative, a Pentecostal cousin with a Pentecostal rooming house. But though she is a Bible thumping tyrant, I’ve always loved her, and "a chain of roses is harder to break than a chain of steel". "I have nothing to lose but my chains". http://community.webtv.net/mpereira/TheSecretsofthe

Response:

Hi again Michael. W0Wsers, you were in the 25th? Thats a real glory unit. The "Fighting 25th" was the nick name they earned i some war…ww2 or ww1. Still they carry that glory. Straight leg infantry, brigade, or battion sized? Or was it a full division? Famous historical unit of straight leg infantry. Glory boys. Anyway…it sounds like you had an episode during training, when they hooked you up to the hot juice machine and sizzled your brains a little. I gotta tell ya, you could have done far worse then to have wound up with pentacostals. Really, they are like the mystical wing of christianty much like the Sufis of Islam. Its a managable situation for you I hope. Sometimes I feel like a prisoner. You feel like a slave. Sometimes things happen where a person never recovers. Take a deep breath. Pull up a chair, take a load off. I used to have answers Michael, no more. Now its just a long walk in the sun. You paint or write, or play music, or sculpt, go fishing, or do origami? Damo

Response:

I was attached to the Fourth Divisionin Nam, to the Seventh Army in Europe. I was in something referred to as a Bastard unit. Basically we went under the administrative unmbrella of who ever needed us. We were sort of a stand alone unit. Mail carriers. Post office. I rode shotgun mostly. Gimme the mail and the 45 and I take it to the next post office. In the Nam they saw I had the 45 experiance so they put me into security where I searched gooks and vehichles and attempted to restrain the reckless war mongering M.P.s they gave me. I took great care not to abuse the gooks and the M.P.s had a different orientation then that. They also started to do my job and I had to put a stop to that quick as I saw it start to grow. MY freaken gate…….the orders were given to me. They ain’t shit but my tools. Well….. They didn’t just give me the M.P.s like penny candy. I had to sign a form for them. Sometimes when the mail contained over 250,000 dollars I had to even sign for jeeps because the M.P.s wouldn’t fit in the truck. Maine is special. A very distinct culture and people live there.

Response:

      One great thing about Pentecostals is that they consider psychiatry to be Satanic. But then with forgetfulness and memory backouts. from too many cracked skulls and concussions, I’m to blame all the time; and, having been injured is no excuse. If I had truely surrendered my life to Jesus, He would have cured me. I certainly do surrender my life to Jesus; I don’t want the responsibility. With no guaranteed free time I feel like a slave. The Loompanics catalogue had an article, "Free Time, the Most Valuable Commodity". Excuse me if I ever have to cut off one of these posts and can’t proof read for mistakes. If Janie catches me writing like this she’ll rip out this WebTV and I’ll be off the internet for good. I sneak about 98% percent of all I do to avoid destructive criticism, or worse punishment, but, I still get it anyway, for, there can never be enough stealth in a situation like this. I’m developing considerable skill in stealth. Janie’s mother, Aunt Ann, was the only non-atheist in the family, but she was a Jensenist Catholic. Jensenist Catholicism is prevalent in the Boston area, and, for example, if a Jesuit teacher in BC High loved math and was good at it he’d be forced to teach English, if it was his worst subject. It was "suffer or they’ll make you suffer,…" My parents were atheists with a little occult in thier backgrounds. Sit in the sun? Yuck! I’ve never had much Christian aptitude. My only use for light is to see by. When I’m in a totally darkened room I see billows of phlorescent colored clouds and other things. I can only get true deep black darkness from women, and I love it. And, I feel best in a deep dark cellar, like my office was in Maine. Down there, it never went over 60

Daily Mpjo Sausage Cry for Attention # 2

Question:

What did the Buddhist find inside the big present under the Christmas tree? Emptiness.

Response:

emptiness another name for Karma Cameleon?  Alias "Little Lizard"? jest gessin cactus jammies ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Doug" <dt12(remove)@adelphia.net> wrote in message

news:1XRce.24439$214.9366@fe14.usenetserver.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What did the Buddhist find inside the big present under the Christmas > tree? > Emptiness.

Response:

Yeh, I think that’s right. Doug… "Cactus Jammies" <n…@joshuatree.nemor> wrote in message

news:56Sce.17340$3V3.17046@edtnps89… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> emptiness another name for Karma Cameleon?  Alias "Little Lizard"? > jest gessin > cactus jammies > ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > "Doug" <dt12(remove)@adelphia.net> wrote in message > news:1XRce.24439$214.9366@fe14.usenetserver.com… >> What did the Buddhist find inside the big present under the Christmas >> tree? >> Emptiness.

Response:

Yeh, I believe in Santa of course.  Doug…  BTW  do you believe in Buddha Clause? "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message

news:UDUce.40151$US.22274@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Doug" <dt12(remove)@adelphia.net> wrote >> What did the Buddhist find inside the big present under the Christmas >> tree? >> Emptiness. > Buddhists don’t have Christmas trees, stupid. Do you also believe in > Santa? > Alias

Response:

"Doug" <dt12(remove)@adelphia.net> wrote > Yeh, I believe in Santa of course.

Ask Elmo about Santa. >  Doug…  BTW  do you believe in Buddha Clause?

Trying to be clever and cute? Alias – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Alias" <a…@maskedandanonymous.com> wrote in message > news:UDUce.40151$US.22274@news.ono.com… >> "Doug" <dt12(remove)@adelphia.net> wrote >>> What did the Buddhist find inside the big present under the Christmas >>> tree? >>> Emptiness. >> Buddhists don’t have Christmas trees, stupid. Do you also believe in >> Santa? >> Alias

Response:

"Doug" <dt12(remove)@adelphia.net> wrote > What did the Buddhist find inside the big present under the Christmas > tree? > Emptiness.

Buddhists don’t have Christmas trees, stupid. Do you also believe in Santa? Alias

Response:

Benzene class action – Condoms are made with quantities of benzene

Question:

Vaginal suppositories: 200 mg (Monistat-3), 100 mg (Monistat-7); Vaginal cream: 2% (Monistat-7; Femizol-M); Topical cream: 2% (Monistat-Derm). There are also two products which combine two different formulations: Vaginal suppositories 200 mg with topical cream 2% (Monistat Dual-Pak) and vaginal suppositories 100 mg with topical cream 2% (Monistat 7 Combination Pack). This is not a complete list. Generic products are also available.

Response:

1: Int J Occup Environ Health. 2000 Apr-Jun;6(2):122-6. Related Articles, Links Benzene percutaneous absorption: dermal exposure relative to other benzene sources. Wester RC, Maibach HI. Department of Dermatology, School of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco, California 94143, USA. Skin is one of several exposure routes whereby benzene, a widely distributed environmental contaminant that causes leukemia, enters the body, so accurate predictions of its percutaneous absorption are important for risk assessment. Determining benzene’s skin-exposure dose and subsequent absorption is difficult because it has a low boiling point and exists as both liquid and vapor. Industrial and environmental benzene is present as a contaminant in other vehicles/solvents, and its percutaneous absorption is in part dependent upon co-solvent volatility. Co-solvents such as benzene in toluene rapidly evaporate from skin, whereas benzene contaminant in water is retained on skin longer due to water’s lower volatility. Co-solvents can also affect benzene-skin partition coefficients; thus, permeability coefficients and percentage doses absorbed can vary many-fold.

Response:

Many women use creams internally which contain absorbtion agents. And what are those absorption agents you’re talking about?

Table 1. Penetration enhancers are found in products that contain known or probable carcinogens. Category    Percent of Products Menopause Cream     54.5%

Where Clubs are Trumps: The Atheist Hell on Earth

Question:

Dan, if the core belief is these things are temporary, is the state of nirvana permanent or temporary?

Well, I’m not Dan, but as far as I understand it, your question misses the point as far as nirvana is concerned. Buddhists believe that time, as well the self, is an illusion brough about by aversion and attachments to thing in the samsaric realm. Thus, when nirvana is attained the whole concept of duration becomes meaningless. Regards, (-: Ian

Response:

 I can’t help but suspect you do not speak for atheists, universally.  What of those Buddhist  atheists who lack belief in "God or gods" whilst embracing the afterlife?   Buddhists don’t beleive in an afterlife. They believe that until you   attain buddhahood, you are reborn into this life in a form dependent   upon how much karma you have built up during this one. Not a Christian afterlife, to be sure, but if "you are reborn" then there is life after death or: afterlife.

I personally wouldn’t count that as an afterlife, after all the reincarnated person comes back to Earth, whereas afterlife implies living somewhere else. The cycle of rebirth, called samsara, is an illusion which Buddhists seek to escape by attaining Nirvana.   While Buddhists do not believe in a Creator being, there is nothing   stopping them believing in gods. However, Buddhists believe that   whether gods exist or not is irrelevent, because they too will be   preoccupied trying to attain nirvana for themselves to interfere with   human affairs. Granted, the doctrine us unlike the Catholic communion of saints, who do take an interest in earthly affairs. But are those Buddhists who lack belief in "God or gods" and also lack belief that death is annihilation, atheists?

Well, someone who lacks belief in gods is by definition an atheist. You seem to think there is a contradiction here, but there isn’t, because samsara is not generated or maintained by gods. Gods play no useful role in the buddhist metaphysic. (-: Ian

Response:

… if "you are reborn" then there is life after death or: afterlife.

That’s not an afterlife. That’s another life.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t help but suspect you do not speak for atheists, universally. What of those Buddhist atheists who lack belief in "God or gods" whilst embracing the afterlife? Buddhists don’t beleive in an afterlife. They believe that until you attain buddhahood, you are reborn into this life in a form dependent upon how much karma you have built up during this one. While Buddhists do not believe in a creator being, there is nothing stopping them believing in gods. However, Buddhists believe that whether gods exist or not is irrelevent, because they too will be preoccupied trying to attain nirvana for themselves to interfere with human affairs. There are many different kinds of Buddhism. Some do believe in various heavens and hells, and other worlds one can be re-born in. These are usually taken from the previous local religions of the various particular kinds of Buddhism. (There’s a Penguin collection of Buddhist scriptures with some interesting and entertaining descriptions.) The core belief of Buddhism, however, also applies to all of these–they are illusory and temporary, just like this world. The same goes for the belief in various deities and supernatural creatures in various kinds of Buddhism.

Dan, if the core belief is these things are temporary, is the state of nirvana permanent or temporary?

Response:

 I can’t help but suspect you do not speak for atheists, universally.  What of those Buddhist  atheists who lack belief in "God or gods" whilst embracing the afterlife?     Buddhists don’t beleive in an afterlife. They believe that until you   attain buddhahood, you are reborn into this life in a form dependent   upon how much karma you have built up during this one. Not a Christian afterlife, to be sure, but if "you are reborn" then there is life after death or: afterlife.   While Buddhists do not believe in a Creator being, there is nothing   stopping them believing in gods. However, Buddhists believe that   whether gods exist or not is irrelevent, because they too will be   preoccupied trying to attain nirvana for themselves to interfere with   human affairs. Granted, the doctrine us unlike the Catholic communion of saints, who do take an interest in earthly affairs. But are those Buddhists who lack belief in "God or gods" and also lack belief that death is annihilation, atheists? — Alan Wostenberg http://www.TheLightOfHeaven.com

Response:

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it*

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it*

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it* the atheist hell Doesn’t exist.

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it* That might be so for atheists who happen to be materialists. What of those who deny both God and materialism, so allow some sort of afterlife?  Buddhists are such atheists. But I’m suspecting atheists here are a cult that not only lack belief in "God or gods" as advertised, but embrace dogmatic materialism, and consequently deny personal immortality of any type, praise the natural

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it* sciences as the source and summit of human knowledge, and all the other things that follow from materialism uncritically accepted. All you have done is prove your ignorance. I can’t help but suspect you do not speak for atheists, universally. What of those Buddhist

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it* atheists who lack belief in "God or gods" whilst embracing the afterlife? Buddhists don’t beleive in an afterlife. They believe that until you attain buddhahood, you are reborn into this life in a form dependent upon how much karma you have built up during this one. While Buddhists do not believe in a creator being, there is nothing stopping them believing in gods. However, Buddhists believe that

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it* whether gods exist or not is irrelevent, because they too will be preoccupied trying to attain nirvana for themselves to interfere with human affairs. As Alan Ferris pointed out, all you have done is demonstrate your ignorance. (-: Ian

*This is off-topic in alt.fan.noam-chomsky. Stop sending it*

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t help but suspect you do not speak for atheists, universally. What of those Buddhist atheists who lack belief in "God or gods" whilst embracing the afterlife? Buddhists don’t beleive in an afterlife. They believe that until you attain buddhahood, you are reborn into this life in a form dependent upon how much karma you have built up during this one. While Buddhists do not believe in a creator being, there is nothing stopping them believing in gods. However, Buddhists believe that whether gods exist or not is irrelevent, because they too will be preoccupied trying to attain nirvana for themselves to interfere with human affairs.

There are many different kinds of Buddhism. Some do believe in various heavens and hells, and other worlds one can be re-born in. These are usually taken from the previous local religions of the various particular kinds of Buddhism. (There’s a Penguin collection of Buddhist scriptures with some interesting and entertaining descriptions.) The core belief of Buddhism, however, also applies to all of these–they are illusory and temporary, just like this world. The same goes for the belief in various deities and supernatural creatures in various kinds of Buddhism. — Dan Clore My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_: http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro Lord We

When does compassion and selflessness become simply being walked on?

Question:

Just a few thoughts : I would say it depends how much money you have If you can spare the money, just give her what she needs, its no problem, in the end, you will forget about i or just feel good that you did everything you could to be good to her. .. But being budhist is not "being stupid". Don

what about karma

Question:

i too think karma can shed an understanding to those ‘unanswered questions’ too. when all sense & logics cannot bring lights to those pounding questions, why stress yourself to find an answer? Can any one suggest any sites or books in coping with rejections?  thanks in advance.

Response:

i too think karma can shed an understanding to those ‘unanswered questions’ too. when all sense & logics cannot bring lights to those pounding questions, why stress yourself to find an answer? Can any one suggest any sites or books in coping with rejections?  thanks in advance.

Rejections? Same problem here pal. My oldest got finally a girlfriend. He is 22. A bit late but not to late. Use your time. Some day you won’t have free time or much less.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives? just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people. just my two cents-guy from long island But, you misunderstand karma.  Karma does not negate free will. It is simply the law of cause and effect.  You reap what you sow.  Negative actions on your part beget negative responses.  Positive actions on your part do the opposite. In other words, you create your own Karma.  You can also recreate it. Good or bad karma doesn’t happen like picking straws.  It has nothing to do with some getting the short stick and other’s getting the long one.  It is simply that consequences are the result of one’s own actions and intent. If you have bad Karma, then you created it yourself.  You created it with your own thoughts and actions. The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I’d say that means whatever happens to you is the responsibility of no one save yourself. I don’t think any psychologist would argue with that. Well, there was that scene in ‘Good Will Hunting’ with Robin Williams repeating ‘It’s not your fault.’

Lot’s of people misunderstand the meaning of Karma.  Even Psychologists in motion pictures. I’ve had a psychiatrist telling me that there is a better, more accurate and different picture of me than the one my s2bx wife has painted to justify leaving me.  I’m interpreting this to mean that the failure of my marriage is not entirely my responsibility.

Of course not.  What is your responsibility is your reaction to the events that happen in your life. I generally agree with the idea that positive actions and thoughts will lead to (possibly quite unrelated) positive outcomes, and the converse.  I’m not so comfortable with the idea that there are no ‘random’ bad (or good) events that are outside of our control.

Of course bad things happen that are out of our control.  Again, it is your actions and thoughts in regard to those things that create your karma. I completely agree with the idea that I am the only one who can control my happiness (eudamonia).  (Someone else could raise my spirits

And, that is exactly what Karma is all about.  You got it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   — Andy Pamela

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I don’t know if I agree with this. I agree that a person has to take responsibility for thier own life BUT you also have to recognize that there are many things that led us to where we are that were totally out of our control. Yes I agree to a certain , very high extent we do create our destiny but it’s not 100%. So true, IMO it is all in how we react to or handle the really awful things happening in our lives and what one learned by getting through it all that really shapes ones life. Lori Mc I’m tiring of the "shaping".   Enough is enough already.   You can have it.

Sad to say you don’t get the option of saying when enough is enough.. Just keep pickin up that foot and putting it in front of the other one and you’ll move past this episode and on to the next.  Hopefully some of the lessons you learn along the way will make the next thing that happens a little easier to handle. Lori Mc

Response:

The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I don’t know if I agree with this. I agree that a person has to take responsibility for thier own life BUT you also have to recognize that there are many things that led us to where we are that were totally out of our control. Yes I agree to a certain , very high extent we do create our destiny but it’s not 100%.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/karma.html "For the early Buddhists, karma was non-linear. Other Indian schools believed that karma operated in a straight line, with actions from the past influencing the present, and present actions influencing the future. As a result, they saw little room for free will. Buddhists, however, saw that karma acts in feedback loops, with the present moment being shaped both by past and by present actions; present actions shape not only the future but also the present. This constant opening for present input into the causal process makes free will possible. This freedom is symbolized in the imagery the Buddhists used to explain the process: flowing water. Sometimes the flow from the past is so strong that little can be done except to stand fast, but there are also times when the flow is gentle enough to be diverted in almost any direction. So, instead of promoting resigned powerlessness, the early Buddhist notion of karma focused on the liberating potential of what the mind is doing with every moment. Who you are — what you come from — is not anywhere near as important as the mind’s motives for what it is doing right now. Even though the past may account for many of the inequalities we see in life, our measure as human beings is not the hand we’ve been dealt, for that hand can change at any moment. We take our own measure by how well we play the hand we’ve got. If you’re suffering, you try not to continue the unskillful mental habits that would keep that particular karmic feedback going. If you see that other people are suffering, and you’re in a position to help, you focus not on their karmic past but your karmic opportunity in the present: Someday you may find yourself in the same predicament that they’re in now, so here’s your opportunity to act in the way you’d like them to act toward you when that day comes. "

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – said… i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives? We do things every day that change the course of our lives.   Admittedly, some have more profound effects than others, but think of the small decisions you make daily.  They all add up. just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people. There are millions upon millions of people who are not "successful in romance" as you put it.  Some have lots of money, some have little, and there’s a ton of people somewhere in the middle. Don’t confuse karma with pure, blind, random occurrences that sometimes have a huge effect on the future of your life. Casey yes  perhaps i do not have a good grasp of the meaning of karma

i think there are consequences beyond out control i do not believe that we are totally responsible for our lot in life. sort of like the calvinistic doctrine that if you fall upon hard times it is because you have a  moral defect. there are many good people that just don’t get the breaks-guy

Response:

    That’s tantamount to saying "The sins of the father are visited upon his children". Now that one I might actually believe, but that makes me wanna kick my old man’s ass for laying so much heavy karma on my butt to contend with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " Or " what goes around, comes around. Sometimes it can take years or whole generations. Do good and you will be rewarded. If not you, so your children. If not them, then the children of them.

Response:

    That’s tantamount to saying "The sins of the father are visited upon his children". Now that one I might actually believe, but that makes me wanna kick my old man’s ass for laying so much heavy karma on my butt to contend with.

Format your hard-disk and install linux red hat. Nothing wrong with the computer. It’s the software. Save important data to a CD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " Or " what goes around, comes around. Sometimes it can take years or whole generations. Do good and you will be rewarded. If not you, so your children. If not them, then the children of them.

Response:

    Actually, I was rather fond of the Corel version of Linux, but that project had been bought by Xandros, which I am getting anxious to try one of these days. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     That’s tantamount to saying "The sins of the father are visited upon his children". Now that one I might actually believe, but that makes me wanna kick my old man’s ass for laying so much heavy karma on my butt to contend with. Format your hard-disk and install linux red hat. Nothing wrong with the computer. It’s the software. Save important data to a CD. " Or " what goes around, comes around. Sometimes it can take years or whole generations. Do good and you will be rewarded. If not you, so your children. If not them, then the children of them.

Response:

The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny.

I don’t know if I agree with this. I agree that a person has to take responsibility for thier own life BUT you also have to recognize that there are many things that led us to where we are that were totally out of our control. Yes I agree to a certain , very high extent we do create our destiny but it’s not 100%.

Response:

The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I don’t know if I agree with this. I agree that a person has to take responsibility for thier own life BUT you also have to recognize that there are many things that led us to where we are that were totally out of our control. Yes I agree to a certain , very high extent we do create our destiny but it’s not 100%.

So true, IMO it is all in how we react to or handle the really awful things happening in our lives and what one learned by getting through it all that really shapes ones life. Lori Mc

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I don’t know if I agree with this. I agree that a person has to take responsibility for thier own life BUT you also have to recognize that there are many things that led us to where we are that were totally out of our control. Yes I agree to a certain , very high extent we do create our destiny but it’s not 100%. So true, IMO it is all in how we react to or handle the really awful things happening in our lives and what one learned by getting through it all that really shapes ones life. Lori Mc

I’m tiring of the "shaping".   Enough is enough already.   You can have it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives? just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people. just my two cents-guy from long island But, you misunderstand karma.  Karma does not negate free will. It is simply the law of cause and effect.  You reap what you sow.  Negative actions on your part beget negative responses.  Positive actions on your part do the opposite. In other words, you create your own Karma.  You can also recreate it.  Good or bad karma doesn’t happen like picking straws.  It has nothing to do with some getting the short stick and other’s getting the long one.  It is simply that consequences are the result of one’s own actions and intent. If you have bad Karma, then you created it yourself.  You created it with your own thoughts and actions. The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I’d say that means whatever happens to you is the responsibility of no one save yourself. I don’t think any psychologist would argue with that.

Well, there was that scene in ‘Good Will Hunting’ with Robin Williams repeating ‘It’s not your fault.’ I’ve had a psychiatrist telling me that there is a better, more accurate and different picture of me than the one my s2bx wife has painted to justify leaving me.  I’m interpreting this to mean that the failure of my marriage is not entirely my responsibility. I generally agree with the idea that positive actions and thoughts will lead to (possibly quite unrelated) positive outcomes, and the converse.  I’m not so comfortable with the idea that there are no ‘random’ bad (or good) events that are outside of our control. I completely agree with the idea that I am the only one who can control my happiness (eudamonia).  (Someone else could raise my spirits   — Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pamela

Response:

i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do.

I think that karma is crap.  You do what you do and, be it good, evil or misguided, and you own the results of your own conduct.  [R]

Response:

 said… i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives?

We do things every day that change the course of our lives.   Admittedly, some have more profound effects than others, but think of the small decisions you make daily.  They all add up. just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people.

There are millions upon millions of people who are not "successful in romance" as you put it.  Some have lots of money, some have little, and there’s a ton of people somewhere in the middle. Don’t confuse karma with pure, blind, random occurrences that sometimes have a huge effect on the future of your life. Casey "A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory."                                      -Steven Wright

Response:

i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives? just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people. just my two cents-guy from long island

Response:

i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives? just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people. just my two cents-guy from long island

But, you misunderstand karma.  Karma does not negate free will. It is simply the law of cause and effect.  You reap what you sow.  Negative actions on your part beget negative responses.  Positive actions on your part do the opposite. In other words, you create your own Karma.  You can also recreate it.  Good or bad karma doesn’t happen like picking straws.  It has nothing to do with some getting the short stick and other’s getting the long one.  It is simply that consequences are the result of one’s own actions and intent. If you have bad Karma, then you created it yourself.  You created it with your own thoughts and actions. The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I’d say that means whatever happens to you is the responsibility of no one save yourself. I don’t think any psychologist would argue with that. Pamela

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i think karma has alot to do with our lives turning out the way they do. of course it’s not popular to think this, as what would all the psychologist’s and therapists do for a living if we admitted there was nothing in our power to change the course of our lives? just think of all the people who have unlimited means and opportunity to meet members of the opposite/same sex and yet are not successful in romance. just read the personal ads in any periodical and you will see these people. just my two cents-guy from long island But, you misunderstand karma.  Karma does not negate free will. It is simply the law of cause and effect.  You reap what you sow.  Negative actions on your part beget negative responses.  Positive actions on your part do the opposite. In other words, you create your own Karma.  You can also recreate it.  Good or bad karma doesn’t happen like picking straws.  It has nothing to do with some getting the short stick and other’s getting the long one.  It is simply that consequences are the result of one’s own actions and intent. If you have bad Karma, then you created it yourself.  You created it with your own thoughts and actions. The theory of Karma lies the blame or credit for your life squarely at your own feet.  You create your own destiny. I’d say that means whatever happens to you is the responsibility of no one save yourself. I don’t think any psychologist would argue with that. Pamela

" Or " what goes around, comes around. Sometimes it can take years or whole generations. Do good and you will be rewarded. If not you, so your children. If not them, then the children of them.

Response:

Mousecapades!!

Question:

Who’s the leader of the club that’s made for you and me? M-I-C-K-E-Y–M-O-U-S-E! Hey there, Hi there, Ho there. You’re as welcome as can be! M-I-C-K-E-Y–M-O-U-S-E! Mickey Mouse (Donald Duck!), Mickey Mouse (Donald Duck!) Forever we will hold your banner high-high-high-high! Come along and sing the song and join our jamboree. M-I-C-K-E-Y–M-O-U-S-E! Now it’s time to say goodbye, To all our company, M-I-C, See you real soon! K-E-Y, Why? Because we like you! M – O – U – S – E

Response:

We have 5 kittys that dine on any poor stupid meeses that enter our house…………..1 cat came up stairs to me to proudly show me her catch then gulped it right down and licked her chops…..trouble was it was 3am and I do not like a meese on my CPAP mask "Jo Cohen" <joco…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:qrmdnbxV9svf1-fd4p2dnA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK so it’s about 2:30 a.m. and I’m sleeping soundly, finally, after a > few very sick days. I’m lying on my side, and my cat Bootsie is > sleeping on top of my shoulder per usual. Suddenly, she simply tears > outta the room and down the long hallway, and through my momentary > terror I can hear her running full speed into the living room. Jake, > my Golden NonRetriever, (because he will go after something but could > care less about bringing it back) apparently ensues at full speed > after her. Given that both would have reacted differently if there > were a Sudden Intruder (how many of you remember that reference!), I > know instantly what the commotion is about. > The mouse. > I grab my glasses and Bootsie is now pawing at our unwanted, but cute > little visitor who is holed up behind the toilet. (At some point they > all flew back from the living room). I quickly close the door, leaving > Jake a bit perplexed on the other side. Before I go any further, a > little ‘history’. > About a week ago, jake and boots began acting weird in the living > room, during, of all times, an episode of "The Sopranos". Earlier that > day, Bootsie was sniffing around the bottom of the stove and Jake kept > staking out the fridge. Trust me, it was Not due to any culinary > accomplishments on my part. As if sparked by a momentary shot at > freedom, Mouse #1 scampered right past all three of us into the dining > room. After much commotion, I managed to trap the not-so-bright little > creature in a plastic container behind my wine rack, with my coveted > flower catalogue slipped underneath. Lovingly, I held the container to > my chest in one hand, opened my heavy wooden front door with the > other, stepped outside (only one step – big mistake) and set him free. > My karma was happy (even though Bootsie wasn’t) and I was somewhat > amazed that I was able to catch the little guy so easily. He just SAT > there! > The next day, I discovered that Mouse #1 had returned. Stupid is as > Stupid Does……Either that, I decided, or he had a brother. > So at nine o’clock on a Monday night, I’m driving around town looking > for a Hav-a-Heart type trap, which I cannot find, and settle on a glue > trap at KMART. My brilliant idea is to humanely lure them with some > additional peanut butter onto the glue trap, then, as the directions > say, "free" the little critter with some Vegetable Oil and a Pencil. > It’s a Plan. > What the Plan failed to take into account was my ability to > consistently check the 4 mousetraps on a regular basis, so that when > they DO catch the little guy(s), I can use my Oil and Pencil skills to > "free" them. For two days I checked them every 4-6 hours. One the > third day, I rested. And they came. And Stuck. And Died. Two of them. > I never was sure if it was Mouse #1 and #2, or #2 and #3. Either way, > my little Buddhist (or as my nephew said "Boodie-ism") heart cried. I > cried. I really did. They were so cute, and they were Supposed to be > set free! My friend Mary sympathized. "I know you don’t want to hurt > them, Jo, but when they start building nests in your comforters and > becoming a real nuisance, you’ll feel differently, and just want them > dead and gone". I would NEVER kill one, I told myself – I am even > struggling to let the creepy spiders outside! (Did you ever try to > catch a spider in some paper towel without crushing it OR having it > crawl up your arm? I still haven’t figured that out yet). > OK, back to my bathroom, or as it will now be known, The Green Mile. > After opening the door and tossing Bootsie out with Jake, I take the > rug and cover the crack under the door with it. I grab a plastic > pitcher I use for watering plants, and try to corner the little guy, > who is now peeking out from behind the toilet, plotting his getaway. > He has the sweetest and roundest little eyes! > "I promise I won’t hurt you, Little One…" I thwack the pitcher one > top of him, and proudly bang my chest. "Me Jane, You captured!" He > slips out from the little spout on the pitcher and scampers past me. > "Shit" I yell. Swinging around, getting a little dizzy from moving too > fast at this ungodly hour, I seek him out. Where’d he go? I lift the > litter box. I look in the tub. I bend over to look behind the little > box. WHEESH! He literally jumps from my towel hanging on the rack OVER > my head into a plant stand. > I scream. I had forgotten mice could fly. Jake whinnies from behind > the door. Realizing the pitcher won’t work, I look around for > something else. The powder! I have a powder container, the kind with > the powder puff in it, on the plant stand. Impulsively, I > take the lid off, dump the powder in the toilet (it was mainly corn > starch anyway….mixed with some good stuff my mom bought me last > year). A cloud of white dust rises from the toilet. I begin to cough. > The Mouse runs over my foot and back under the plant stand. I scream > again. Then cough. Then pee. This is NOT funny anymore. The bathroom > is getting hot, I am sweating, and the powder is getting in my eyes. I > capture the mouse twice more, and both times he escapes. Now I’m > getting angry and for a split second I eye the bathroom spray. Then I > recall an old sociopathic client I had once who used to spray > hairspray on his sister’s parakeets because he hated birds. She never > knew why they kept dying. Nope, not gonna go there. > Once more I have him trapped behind the toilet. He makes a run for it. > This time he bolts past me, JUMPS onto the shower curtain, and begins > to perform a Cirque de Soleil act. I go after him, he jumps down and > hides behind a plant. This is getting ridiculous! Finally I trap him > in my powder container. I slide the cover of a magazine under it, and > head for the door. I wonder how many more Meeses there are. This time, > I walk, in my nightgown, at 3 a.m., across the lawn and deviously let > him go (OK, I threw him) towards the hedge near my neighbors house. I > hear him in the dark scamper away. > Anyway, sorry to bore you all with this, I thought I could make it > funnier…..but hey, it’s 4 a.m. and I have lungs now full of powder, > and Who Knows what might be in my bed, under my down comforter! Now > the question is: What do I do? I don’t want an exterminator to spray > chemicals, and I don’t want to kill meeses to pieces. And I sure as > heck don’t want any more Middle of the Night shenanigans on The Green > Mile! > Suggestions appreciated! > G’night! > Jo

Response:

OK so it’s about 2:30 a.m. and I’m sleeping soundly, finally, after a few very sick days. I’m lying on my side, and my cat Bootsie is sleeping on top of my shoulder per usual. Suddenly, she simply tears outta the room and down the long hallway, and through my momentary terror I can hear her running full speed into the living room. Jake, my Golden NonRetriever, (because he will go after something but could care less about bringing it back) apparently ensues at full speed after her. Given that both would have reacted differently if there were a Sudden Intruder (how many of you remember that reference!), I know instantly what the commotion is about. The mouse. I grab my glasses and Bootsie is now pawing at our unwanted, but cute little visitor who is holed up behind the toilet. (At some point they all flew back from the living room). I quickly close the door, leaving Jake a bit perplexed on the other side. Before I go any further, a little ‘history’. About a week ago, jake and boots began acting weird in the living room, during, of all times, an episode of "The Sopranos". Earlier that day, Bootsie was sniffing around the bottom of the stove and Jake kept staking out the fridge. Trust me, it was Not due to any culinary accomplishments on my part. As if sparked by a momentary shot at freedom, Mouse #1 scampered right past all three of us into the dining room. After much commotion, I managed to trap the not-so-bright little creature in a plastic container behind my wine rack, with my coveted flower catalogue slipped underneath. Lovingly, I held the container to my chest in one hand, opened my heavy wooden front door with the other, stepped outside (only one step – big mistake) and set him free. My karma was happy (even though Bootsie wasn’t) and I was somewhat amazed that I was able to catch the little guy so easily. He just SAT there! The next day, I discovered that Mouse #1 had returned. Stupid is as Stupid Does……Either that, I decided, or he had a brother. So at nine o’clock on a Monday night, I’m driving around town looking for a Hav-a-Heart type trap, which I cannot find, and settle on a glue trap at KMART. My brilliant idea is to humanely lure them with some additional peanut butter onto the glue trap, then, as the directions say, "free" the little critter with some Vegetable Oil and a Pencil. It’s a Plan. What the Plan failed to take into account was my ability to consistently check the 4 mousetraps on a regular basis, so that when they DO catch the little guy(s), I can use my Oil and Pencil skills to "free" them. For two days I checked them every 4-6 hours. One the third day, I rested. And they came. And Stuck. And Died. Two of them. I never was sure if it was Mouse #1 and #2, or #2 and #3. Either way, my little Buddhist (or as my nephew said "Boodie-ism") heart cried. I cried. I really did. They were so cute, and they were Supposed to be set free! My friend Mary sympathized. "I know you don’t want to hurt them, Jo, but when they start building nests in your comforters and becoming a real nuisance, you’ll feel differently, and just want them dead and gone". I would NEVER kill one, I told myself – I am even struggling to let the creepy spiders outside! (Did you ever try to catch a spider in some paper towel without crushing it OR having it crawl up your arm? I still haven’t figured that out yet). OK, back to my bathroom, or as it will now be known, The Green Mile. After opening the door and tossing Bootsie out with Jake, I take the rug and cover the crack under the door with it. I grab a plastic pitcher I use for watering plants, and try to corner the little guy, who is now peeking out from behind the toilet, plotting his getaway. He has the sweetest and roundest little eyes! "I promise I won’t hurt you, Little One…" I thwack the pitcher one top of him, and proudly bang my chest. "Me Jane, You captured!" He slips out from the little spout on the pitcher and scampers past me. "Shit" I yell. Swinging around, getting a little dizzy from moving too fast at this ungodly hour, I seek him out. Where’d he go? I lift the litter box. I look in the tub. I bend over to look behind the little box. WHEESH! He literally jumps from my towel hanging on the rack OVER my head into a plant stand. I scream. I had forgotten mice could fly. Jake whinnies from behind the door. Realizing the pitcher won’t work, I look around for something else. The powder! I have a powder container, the kind with the powder puff in it, on the plant stand. Impulsively, I take the lid off, dump the powder in the toilet (it was mainly corn starch anyway….mixed with some good stuff my mom bought me last year). A cloud of white dust rises from the toilet. I begin to cough. The Mouse runs over my foot and back under the plant stand. I scream again. Then cough. Then pee. This is NOT funny anymore. The bathroom is getting hot, I am sweating, and the powder is getting in my eyes. I capture the mouse twice more, and both times he escapes. Now I’m getting angry and for a split second I eye the bathroom spray. Then I recall an old sociopathic client I had once who used to spray hairspray on his sister’s parakeets because he hated birds. She never knew why they kept dying. Nope, not gonna go there. Once more I have him trapped behind the toilet. He makes a run for it. This time he bolts past me, JUMPS onto the shower curtain, and begins to perform a Cirque de Soleil act. I go after him, he jumps down and hides behind a plant. This is getting ridiculous! Finally I trap him in my powder container. I slide the cover of a magazine under it, and head for the door. I wonder how many more Meeses there are. This time, I walk, in my nightgown, at 3 a.m., across the lawn and deviously let him go (OK, I threw him) towards the hedge near my neighbors house. I hear him in the dark scamper away. Anyway, sorry to bore you all with this, I thought I could make it funnier…..but hey, it’s 4 a.m. and I have lungs now full of powder, and Who Knows what might be in my bed, under my down comforter! Now the question is: What do I do? I don’t want an exterminator to spray chemicals, and I don’t want to kill meeses to pieces. And I sure as heck don’t want any more Middle of the Night shenanigans on The Green Mile! Suggestions appreciated! G’night! Jo

Response:

Last shot….

Question:

LOL .. good one FF. Nothing like a good pun. Crispy "Fee Fi" <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote in message

news:R4OdnfR0cvM1xnOjXTWJkA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… > > Last friday was my last shot! > Congrats! > Keep thinking "negative". > – FF

Response:

Fee Fi <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote…

| Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half of | all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like | genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too | surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. | – Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi | …der  :-) | Der Spi say Hi to Fi! Half of the population of Egypt? Sounds like an innoculation program…

Response:

Where do you get 50% from for Egypt? I’ve always read that it was between 15%-20%, due mostly to parenteral antischistosomal therapy. Poorly cleaned glass syringes used to administer the polio vaccine in Southern Italy are considered to be the cause of a high percentage of cases in the general population. Someone I used to work with was from there and her mother died of HCV-related liver cancer. Lana "Fee Fi" <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote in message

news:qRKdnSMOc_BeK3KjXTWJiw@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half of > all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like > genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too > surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. > – Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi > …der  :-)

Response:

Waterspider wrote: > Fee Fi <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote… > | Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half > of > | all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like > | genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too > | surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. > | – Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi > | …der  :-) > | > Der Spi say Hi to Fi! > Half of the population of Egypt? Sounds like an innoculation program…

Stay out of East Bumfuck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

szozu wrote: > Where do you get 50% from for Egypt? I’ve always read that it was between > 15%-20%, due mostly to parenteral antischistosomal therapy. > Poorly cleaned glass syringes used to administer the polio vaccine in > Southern Italy

Funny, I got my polio shots in Spain.   are considered to be the cause of a high percentage of cases – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> in the general population. Someone I used to work with was from there and > her mother died of HCV-related liver cancer. > Lana > "Fee Fi" <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote in message > news:qRKdnSMOc_BeK3KjXTWJiw@comcast.com… >>Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half > of >>all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like >>genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too >>surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. >>- Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi >>…der  :-)

Response:

"Geb Bixer" <gbi…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3EF08EA0.3070009@yahoo.com… > szozu wrote: > > Where do you get 50% from for Egypt? I’ve always read that it was between > > 15%-20%, due mostly to parenteral antischistosomal therapy. > > Poorly cleaned glass syringes used to administer the polio vaccine in > > Southern Italy > Funny, I got my polio shots in Spain.

I was once herded onto a bus (I think it was in Formentera, but it might have been Ibiza) with all the local villagers, driven to a hospital and innoculated against cholera. I seem to remember one of those spray-injection devices and I sure don’t recall any pauses between customers as they lined us up and processed us, one after another. This was around 1969. Lana – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   are considered to be the cause of a high percentage of cases > > in the general population. Someone I used to work with was from there and > > her mother died of HCV-related liver cancer. > > Lana > > "Fee Fi" <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote in message > > news:qRKdnSMOc_BeK3KjXTWJiw@comcast.com… > >>Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half > > of > >>all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like > >>genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too > >>surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. > >>- Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi > >>…der  :-)

Response:

I went through the shot gun gauntlet on my way to Vietnam.  Everybody (about 220 of us) were bleeding from the arm. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -szozu wrote: > "Geb Bixer" <gbi…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:3EF08EA0.3070009@yahoo.com… >>szozu wrote: >>>Where do you get 50% from for Egypt? I’ve always read that it was > between >>>15%-20%, due mostly to parenteral antischistosomal therapy. >>>Poorly cleaned glass syringes used to administer the polio vaccine in >>>Southern Italy >>Funny, I got my polio shots in Spain. > I was once herded onto a bus (I think it was in Formentera, but it might > have been Ibiza) with all the local villagers, driven to a hospital and > innoculated against cholera. I seem to remember one of those spray-injection > devices and I sure don’t recall any pauses between customers as they lined > us up and processed us, one after another. This was around 1969. > Lana >>  are considered to be the cause of a high percentage of cases >>>in the general population. Someone I used to work with was from there > and >>>her mother died of HCV-related liver cancer. >>>Lana >>>"Fee Fi" <hop…@comcastNOSPAM.PLEASEnet> wrote in message >>>news:qRKdnSMOc_BeK3KjXTWJiw@comcast.com… >>>>Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half >>>of >>>>all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like >>>>genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too >>>>surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. >>>>- Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi >>>>…der  :-)

Response:

Maybe it’s not that 50% of the people are infected, but of those infected, 50% are genotype 4?   Shit, if it was 50% of the population infected, wouldn’t the WHO have set off world-wide alarms and and such. After all, SARS has only killed a few hundred, yet they’re shutting down whole countries and towns over it.  I guess it’s probably because hepc isn’t as readily transmitted.  But Geez, 50% of the population infected? That’s ridiculous!! Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/ABandisBorn http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

  szozu" <hoppbunny at hotmail dot com> wrote in message news:3ef09d21$0$5424$626a54ce@news.free.fr… > I was once herded onto a bus (I think it was in Formentera, but it might > have been Ibiza) with all the local villagers, driven to a hospital and > innoculated against cholera. I seem to remember one of those spray-injection > devices and I sure don’t recall any pauses between customers as they lined > us up and processed us, one after another. This was around 1969. > Lana

  Sounds familiar.  Mass public inoculations were the norm during cholera season when I lived in Thailand in the late 70’s.  Roadblocks would be set up and if you couldn’t produce an immunization record you had to get the shot.  Problem was, they would draw up 10 shots into a glass syringe and use it (with the same needle attached) on the next 10 people in line.  The needle was sharpened as necessary, and the syringe rinsed with alcohol every other time it was filled.   We always had a surge in hepatitis and malaria cases in our hospital in the weeks and months following the roadblocks that were set up in the rainy season.  The official opinion of the Ministry of Health was that it was best to limit the annual cholera epidemic as much as possible, and worry about the hepatitis and malaria later.  After all, people got hepatitis and malaria all the time…..  It was as if cholera was a public health issue, and hepatitis and other endemic illnesses were considered Karma.  Kind of makes sense – from a Buddhist philosophical point of view.   I still made sure I always had my WHO Immunization card with me, and never had to submit to the public inoculations.  The funny thing is that I got Hep C from a needle stick years later working in a state-of-the-art hospital in the good ole USA ( OK, it’s not really all that funny ).  Shit happens. Thom

Response:

Congratulations Benjie….. — Rocky "Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML. > — > Bengie > bqa66 at despammed dot com > ————————————–

Response:

Yay Bengie! Good luck on your lab tests! hc Bengie <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML. > — > Bengie > bqa66 at despammed dot com > ————————————–

Response:

I stand at attention and salute the 48 shot dragon slaying warrior. Hail Bengie! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bengie wrote: > Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML.

Response:

Well, you made it! That in itself is a praiseworthy accomplishment. Best of luck on your next PCR. Lana "Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML. > — > Bengie > bqa66 at despammed dot com > ————————————–

Response:

yeah bengie….now on with life!!! stay around and help the masses…. Fonzz "Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML. > — > Bengie > bqa66 at despammed dot com > ————————————–

Response:

Congrats on making it thru the full 48 weeks.  You ought to have a pcr done on the final day you take your pills and again in two weeks from the day you take your last pills.  That way you’ll know whether you were undetectable while on the meds. And if you’re undetectable on the first test, another one done two weeks later will tell you if win the big prize, a trip to Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory.  Elmo   http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/ABandisBorn http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

"Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… > Last friday was my last shot!

Congrats! Keep thinking "negative". – FF

Response:

Bengie <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote…

| Last friday was my last shot! | I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. | On 6/27 I go for the viral load. | I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. | I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. | Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. | At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 | IU/ML. Wow, 48 weeks! You have my respect, and my congratulations. Curious about your genotype though, I think it’s uncommon and am wondering if you’ve read anything about success of tx for genotype 4. Does it get the same results as 1, or is it in the higher-response category like 2 & 3. Cheers <clinking of teacups> and best of luck for a dragon-free future. Waterspider

Response:

There is not much info since it is very uncommon in the US. They treat it like 1x, 48 weeks, other than that I know nothing else. My doc says they have one more patient genotype 4 out of several hundred patients in their practice. He also told me he has spoken with other coleages at the University of Miami and they "think" it’s as hard to treat as 1x but less "active" on the liver. Thanks for the support…. — Bengie bqa66 at despammed dot com ————————————– "Waterspider" <noapam@all> wrote in message news:vetd4jto8po297@corp.supernews.com… Bengie <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote…

| Last friday was my last shot! | I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. | On 6/27 I go for the viral load. | I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. | I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. | Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. | At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 | IU/ML. Wow, 48 weeks! You have my respect, and my congratulations. Curious about your genotype though, I think it’s uncommon and am wondering if you’ve read anything about success of tx for genotype 4. Does it get the same results as 1, or is it in the higher-response category like 2 & 3. Cheers <clinking of teacups> and best of luck for a dragon-free future. Waterspider

Response:

I’m scheduled for the PCR one week after my last day taking the pills, my doc wanted to wait on full month but I couldn’t wait that long without knowing something…. so I met him 1/3 of the way….. Thanks for the support….. — Bengie bqa66 at despammed dot com ————————————– <elmoemer…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:3223-3EEE3E69-328@storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net… Congrats on making it thru the full 48 weeks.  You ought to have a pcr done on the final day you take your pills and again in two weeks from the day you take your last pills.  That way you’ll know whether you were undetectable while on the meds. And if you’re undetectable on the first test, another one done two weeks later will tell you if win the big prize, a trip to Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory.  Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/ABandisBorn http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

Benjie, a pcr done at one week after the last meds is about as useful as tits on a boar hog.  It’s not gonna tell you anything meaningful.  It’s not.  If you wait just one more week, it’ll tell you whether you’re going to have the prized ‘SVR’!  Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/ABandisBorn http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

Bengie <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote…

| There is not much info since it is very uncommon in the US. | They treat it like 1x, 48 weeks, other than that I know nothing else. | My doc says they have one more patient genotype 4 out of several hundred patients in their | practice. | He also told me he has spoken with other coleages at the University of Miami and they "think" | it’s as hard to treat as 1x but less "active" on the liver. Thanks for the info Benjie. Look at it this way, you have a far more interesting genotype than those common old 1s and 2s and 3s! Take care & good luck with tx, Waterspider

Response:

"Waterspider" <noapam@all> wrote in message

news:vetd4jto8po297@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bengie <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote… > | Last friday was my last shot! > | I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > | On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > | I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > | I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > | Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > | At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that > detects down to 5 > | IU/ML. > Wow, 48 weeks! > You have my respect, and my congratulations. > Curious about your genotype though, I think it’s uncommon and am wondering > if you’ve read anything about success of tx for genotype 4. Does it get the > same results as 1, or is it in the higher-response category like 2 & 3. > Cheers <clinking of teacups> and best of luck for a dragon-free future. > Waterspider

Genotype 4 infects nearly half the adult population of Egypt (yes – half of all adults), where it is by far the most common genotype.  Acts like genotype 1 in pretty much every way that has been studied.  Not too surprising because it is genetically the closest cousin to genotype 1. – Fee Fi says Hi to Waterspi …der  :-)

Response:

Excellent …. wtg ! Crispy "Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML. > — > Bengie > bqa66 at despammed dot com > ————————————–

Response:

Last friday was my last shot! I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. On 6/27 I go for the viral load. I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 IU/ML. — Bengie bqa66 at despammed dot com ————————————–

Response:

Good luck Bengie, your good news is mine…. — Russ Tanner Palmer, Alaska email address is spoofed, you’ll figure it out! http://www.tannersacre.com "Bengie" <nospa…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:FKiHa.23095$bn5.18150@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last friday was my last shot! > I’m happy it’s almost over, I still got the pills to take this week. > On 6/27 I go for the viral load. > I did the 48 shots/weeks of the treatment with Peg-Intron & Ribavirin. > I started with genotype 4a and a viral load of 70800 IU/ML. > Liver at Grade I, Stage 0. > At week 25 viral load came back at 280 IU/ML using the Heptimax test that detects down to 5 > IU/ML. > — > Bengie > bqa66 at despammed dot com > ————————————–

Response:

karma

Question:

This discussion seems to dissolve right before my eyes.  There is no rigor or clarity. Karma is volitional actions.  Consequences are not "focussed" on, they are forced on.  What goes around comes around whether you like it or not.  It doesn’t require justification.

So, karma is a result of intentional actions? See, this is where I’m getting two different answers in the many many descriptions I’ve read. On the one hand, I read that karma is a result of volition and on the other hand I read that karma is a result of ignorance. The problem as I see it is that if you are ignorant, you are not actually making a choice, you are simply guided by your ignorance, or instinct, or something to that effect. Yes, I know that in theory, karma is forced, but, if people believe this to be true, then I think they will attempt to behave themselves, so to speak, so that future lives will be better for them. So, instead of trying to make your future lives better, shouldn’t you be trying not to have future lives? Everything requires justification, for me anyway, and everything requires questioning, I’m not simply going to accept something because it’s been handed to me. What goes around comes around – how is that different than an eye for an eye? Without craving you could have no first thought.  That isn’t "tracing" anything anywhere, it’s an irrefutable rational statement.  Understanding it is not the problem.  Dealing with it is the problem.

I disagree. I think there is thought and there is *thought* and the latter is consciousness and nothing to do with the body and its instincts and craving. I think that without this *thought* you would have no consciousness. Who’s opinion is it that it’s an irrefutable rational statement? And further, do you think that everything is rational? Here is a 21st century idea for you to chew on, not a direct quotation, unfortunately. It is a truly great idea, and it is being applied to language translation software.  It is obvious *once stated*, and it is obvious that the Buddha applied it in his teaching: Understanding a concept is nothing more than seeing it from more than one perspective.  – Eli Abir

Yes, I agree with that. I think that various religions see the same concept from different perspectives, if only people would get togather and share their ideas collectively without thinking that one is superior to the other, then maybe we could arrive at understanding. Isabella

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This discussion seems to dissolve right before my eyes.  There is no rigor or clarity. Karma is volitional actions.  Consequences are not "focussed" on, they are forced on.  What goes around comes around whether you like it or not.  It doesn’t require justification. So, karma is a result of intentional actions? See, this is where I’m getting two different answers in the many many descriptions I’ve read. On the one hand, I read that karma is a result of volition and on the other hand I read that karma is a result of ignorance.

Bad actions are the result of ignorance, not good actions.  DaveA — The biggest losers of all are the winners of an unjust war. The wars are not over.  Just the winning part is over. Bush lied.  Thousands died.   http://www.openguitar.com

Response:

What is this a response to?

Following that dialogue was like watching two people trying to waltz when up to their necks in a mire. As for needing justification and its being an irrefutable rational statement, I wish karma and the workings of the universe were as clear to us at is it for you.

It works in your own head, and that’s where you have to look for answers. I do not completely understand these things and appreciate this forum in which I can bounce ideas off others to further my understanding. Right View is part of the path, notably not some prerequisite, and understanding comes in steps, not all at once, not instantly irrefutably and obviously.

Actually both ways, as you have no doubt experienced. How is it being applied to translation software, precisely?

You’ll have to ask him.  DaveA — The biggest losers of all are the winners of an unjust war. The wars are not over.  Just the winning part is over. Bush lied.  Thousands died.   http://www.openguitar.com

Response:

What is this a response to? Following that dialogue was like watching two people trying to waltz when up to their necks in a mire.

Sorry if it wasn’t clear to you, but I didn’t have any problem understanding the conversation. What strikes you as unclear?

Response:

This discussion seems to dissolve right before my eyes.  There is no rigor or clarity. Karma is volitional actions.  Consequences are not "focussed" on, they are forced on.  What goes around comes around whether you like it or not.  It doesn’t require justification. Without craving you could have no first thought.  That isn’t "tracing" anything anywhere, it’s an irrefutable rational statement.  Understanding it is not the problem.  Dealing with it is the problem. Here is a 21st century idea for you to chew on, not a direct quotation, unfortunately. It is a truly great idea, and it is being applied to language translation software.  It is obvious *once stated*, and it is obvious that the Buddha applied it in his teaching: Understanding a concept is nothing more than seeing it from more than one perspective.  – Eli Abir — The biggest losers of all are the winners of an unjust war. The wars are not over.  Just the winning part is over. Bush lied.  Thousands died.   http://www.openguitar.com

Response:

This discussion seems to dissolve right before my eyes.  There is no rigor or clarity. Karma is volitional actions.  Consequences are not "focussed" on, they are forced on.  What goes around comes around whether you like it or not.  It doesn’t require justification.

What is this a response to? I’m looking over my responses again and again and I can’t see how the "focussed" reference is relevant. I made it clear that, even in ignorance, you deal with the consequences of your actions, even if those actions are nothing more than inaction, so why was it necessary to say that "what goes around comes around, whether you like it or not"? Without craving you could have no first thought.  That isn’t "tracing" anything anywhere, it’s an irrefutable rational statement.  Understanding it is not the problem.  Dealing with it is the problem.

As for needing justification and its being an irrefutable rational statement, I wish karma and the workings of the universe were as clear to us at is it for you. I do not completely understand these things and appreciate this forum in which I can bounce ideas off others to further my understanding. Right View is part of the path, notably not some prerequisite, and understanding comes in steps, not all at once, not instantly irrefutably and obviously. Here is a 21st century idea for you to chew on, not a direct quotation, unfortunately. It is a truly great idea, and it is being applied to language translation software.  It is obvious *once stated*, and it is obvious that the Buddha applied it in his teaching:

How is it being applied to translation software, precisely? I do some artifical intelligence programming and find the idea interesting, for I’m not sure exactly how it would be applied. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Understanding a concept is nothing more than seeing it from more than one perspective.  – Eli Abir — The biggest losers of all are the winners of an unjust war. The wars are not over.  Just the winning part is over. Bush lied.  Thousands died.   http://www.openguitar.com

Response:

The idea of karma has been on my mind and it remains unresolved in the sense that on the surface it seems to make sense, but it leaves many unanswered questions. This is my attempt at trying to unravel the mystery of something that is commonly described as cause and effect. This phrasing is something that makes logical sense, and I think it is this that draws many people in to this concept, and I am no exception. Currently, just thinking about it has my mind literally running in circles, my mind feels like it is stuck in a loop. This, I think, cannot be a good thing, thought I have a hunch that this concept is somehow designed to do that. In light of the Buddhist concept of detachment, I do not see how focusing the opposite of detachment makes sense. This is what I think the concept of karma does. If you are detached, then why would you focus on karma in order to have a better quality of attached life in the next rebirth? And further, what does karma matter when one becomes awake/enlightened? It seems to me that at this point, karma ceases to have any effect and if that is the case, then karma never had any effect. I am going to start quoting various descriptions of karma, as it is easier than to rephrase them. "Karma is the law of moral causation. The theory of Karma is a fundamental doctrine in Buddhism. This belief was prevalent in India before the advent of the Buddha. Nevertheless, it was the Buddha who explained and formulated this doctrine in the complete form in which we have it today. What is the cause of the inequality that exists among mankind? Why should one person be brought up in the lap of luxury, endowed with fine mental, moral and physical qualities, and another in absolute poverty, steeped in misery? Why should one person be a mental prodigy, and another an idiot? Why should one person be born with saintly characteristics and another with criminal tendencies? Why should some be linguistic, artistic, mathematically inclined, or musical from the very cradle? Why should others be congenitally blind, deaf, or deformed?| Why should some be blessed, and others cursed from their births? Either this inequality of mankind has a cause, or it is purely accidental. No sensible person would think of attributing this unevenness, this inequality, and this diversity to blind chance or pure accident. In this world nothing happens to a person that he does not for some reason or other deserve. Usually, men of ordinary intellect cannot comprehend the actual reason or reasons. The definite invisible cause or causes of the visible effect is not necessarily confined to the present life, they may be traced to a proximate or remote past birth." The above seems to me to be no more than an answer to the observation of inequality. What bothers me about it is that it is no different than the concept of punishment/reward, and no different than saying if you are bad, you are going to hell and if you are good, you are going to heaven. What stands out to me is that whether it is punishment or reward you rack up in your karmic bag, it is still one big punishment as you are still in the cycle of death/rebirth. So what difference does it make whether you are a rich man or poor man if you are still ignorant of yourself? "Depending on this difference in Karma appears the differences in the birth of beings, high and low, base and exalted, happy and miserable. Depending on the difference in Karma appears the difference in the individual features of beings as beautiful and ugly, high-born or low born, well-built or deformed. Depending on the difference in Karma appears the difference in worldly conditions of beings, such as gain and loss, and disgrace, blame and praise, happiness and misery." So, models sure have some good karma! "The Pali term Karma literally means action or doing. Any kind of intentional action whether mental, verbal, or physical, is regarded as Karma. It covers all that is included in the phrase "thought, word and deed". Generally speaking, all good and bad action constitutes Karma. In its ultimate sense Karma means all moral and immoral volition. Involuntary, unintentional or unconscious actions, though technically deeds, do not constitute Karma, because volition, the most important factor in determining Karma, is absent." "Ignorance (avijja), or not knowing things as they truly are, is the chief cause of Karma. Dependent on ignorance arise activities (avijja paccaya samkhara) states the Buddha in the Paticca Samuppada (Dependent Origination)." The above quotes are from the same article. On the one hand, karma is volition, and on the other hand, karma is ignorance. That’s one big contradiction. There is no volition in ignorance. So what is karma then – is it ignorance or volition? "1. Everything that happens here is an effect of a cause or causes and this effect itself is the cause of some other effects. This is the Universal Law of the continuity of individuals and phenomena. For the role of God or Creator, Buddhism substituted the rule of the Law of Karma. This Law is active in every department of the universe this cannot be broken. Both happiness and sorrow of the man are the result of the Karma. One, therefore, must do good and discard evil. The Buddha says: "An evil deed left undone is better, for an evil deed causes suffering later. A good deed done is better, for doing it does not cause suffering." For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Cause and effect, but, there is more than cause and effect in the theory of karma. For instance, say a man kills another man. The cause is the action of killing and the effect is death – right? So, there you have a cause and effect – now the bad karma resulting from this is a third factor and the side effect is the psychological impact this act had on the killer and the psychological impact this death had on any people connected to the deceased man. This is quite a bit of karma that doesn’t just effect the doer, but also people that had nothing to do with the doer. And it goes on and on in this way in many different circumstances, and karma is not an individual possession but the consequence of every single action that ever took place. What I imagine is and endless interconnected web that ties everyone that ever existed togather in one big karmic ball. Is karma then individual or is it simply the nature of the world itself over which we have little control? I remember a particular experience that really stands out in my mind probably because it was a lesson of sort. I was shopping with my daughter in a department store. She found a tiny pokemon toy in a shoe. There were no kids around, I was in a hurry, and didn’t think antything of letting her keep it. About an hour later we were in a toy store and when we left, she discoverd she lost both the pokemon toy she found as well as her toy that she was carrying around that day. It was a bizarre moment for me, like I was supposed to get something out of it. Was it karma or coincidence, I don’t know. Looking back, I probably should have brought that little pokemon toy to an employee in the store, but at that time, I don’t recall making a willful choice not to do that – in fact, I didn’t think about it at all. So, I don’t know if the lesson was that karma is not choice, it is autonomous, or what, but certainly it was my daughter that reaped the effect even though she did not make a choice as she was too young to do so. What about effects that really have no cause, or action? Just as you reap what you sow, you can’t reap what you don’t sow and yet the fact that you didn’t sow is part of what makes you who you are today as much as your past actions. For instance, maybe I never thought of gaining some sort of skill or going to college so now I must work at McDonals or something similar. So, there is also effect due to inaction. So, if anyone can give me some insight, I would appreciate it, thanks Isabella

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For many, the kind of detachment practiced by the sangha is not possible. There are children to feed, businesses to run, love to be made, and ill parents to take care of. Many are not able to keep all the rules, walk around in the robes, support themselves by begging, etc. The idea, then, is to live a good secular life in the hopes of being reborn in a better position, from which one can really begin the work of enlightenment. You know, I used to live by a Krishna temple and would occasionally say hi to the guys playing drums on the lawn. Sometimes I would think to myself how easy it must be to remove oneself from the world. I don’t see how enlightenment is something that must be worked on in such a way that one must be removed from day to day life. Interesting, though, I was not aware that was the motivation.

In many of the later kinds of Buddhism, it isn’t necessary at all to remove yourself from the world to work on enlightenment. In some really pathological cases, you were supposed to do the worst possible things in the world so that the Buddhas would work hardest to save you. In other cases, there isn’t even the goal "enlightenment" – we are all inherently enlightened and to try to get there is to try to accomplish the impossible. In others, there’s not a lot we can do to become enlightened other than place our hopes in some sort of savior being – any householder can do this. When I described that situation, I was thinking primarily of the older types of Buddhism. I want to make sure I don’t give you the impression that that’s the way it works in all Buddhisms, because there are definitely some out there that allow for spiritual work while remaining in the secular. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The answer to those questions, I think, is not something that anyone can give to another. Ultimately, even if we get the best scientific explanations of the processes that govern those occurances, we are still left with "Why?" That is, to me, part of what I am doing in my meditations – trying to work with those almost choking doubts, to find, if not answers, at least a way to deal with the reality of my situation. You’re right. Where does the second quote say that karma is ignorance? Karma is caused by ignorance, it seems to say. Unless we are willing to believe that a match is a fire, I’m not sure where you are finding a contradiction here. I’m sorry, I phrased it improperly. First, the article said that karma is volition, then it said that karma is caused by ignorance. I think that the first part is saying that it is your choice that determines what sort of karma you store up for yourself, while the second part is probably saying that it is bad karma that is caused by ignorance. This is what I have a problem with – if it is ignorance that causes bad karma, then why does it even exist because I don’t think that ignorance is capable of making a choice. Or is it saying that all karma is caused by ignorance until one becomes enlightened and karma no longer applies? That makes more sense to me for some reason. I’m just guessing here, since the wording isn’t specific enough. karma is choice, then it cannot be caused by ignorance, since there is no choice in ignorance.

Ignorance of the consequences, I would probably say to clarify. If one of my friends, say, were injured mortally and we were out in the middle of nowhere, I would certainly try to help him. However, I am largely ignorant of internal medicine. I might injure him even more in my attempts to save him because I was ignorant. Heck, even if I were to sit and do nothing, it would be because my ignorance made me afraid to try to help him, because I knew that I’d probably end up hurting him more. A skilled doctor, however, would act, well, skillfully, sewing what needed to be sewn, etc. His knowledge would allow him to correctly choose the path of treatment and save my friend. The point is – I am given a choice, no matter what I know: sew up his wounds, apply pressure, do nothing, pray, apply antiseptic, etc. I cannot not choose unless I’m unconscious. Ignorance doesn’t make us unable to choose – it only makes us less able to see the consequences and to choose wisely. It blinds us to the choices and their effects, rather than allowing us to circumvent the choice completely. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have found that the best explanation of karma is the simplest – "it is the law of cause and effect." This is not to imply that the universe is fatalistic nor that choice is irrelevant. It is a recognition of the effects of past thoughts, choices, and actions, on the future. It is a recognition that our world is shaped by our perceptions, which are shaped, often clouded, by things we have thought or done in the past. Karma is as organic (in the sense of complexity), I think, as the universe itself and cannot be codified as some simple idea. It is, I would think, the method by which all things move and pave the paths in front of themselves. I guess that’s my main issue in understanding this – it appears that the cause starts at person A and the effect is in person B and sometimes many other people that are connected.

Aye. The problem is that the lines we draw in our heads rarely exist in reality.

Response:

For many, the kind of detachment practiced by the sangha is not possible. There are children to feed, businesses to run, love to be made, and ill parents to take care of. Many are not able to keep all the rules, walk around in the robes, support themselves by begging, etc. The idea, then, is to live a good secular life in the hopes of being reborn in a better position, from which one can really begin the work of enlightenment.

You know, I used to live by a Krishna temple and would occasionally say hi to the guys playing drums on the lawn. Sometimes I would think to myself how easy it must be to remove oneself from the world. I don’t see how enlightenment is something that must be worked on in such a way that one must be removed from day to day life. Interesting, though, I was not aware that was the motivation. The answer to those questions, I think, is not something that anyone can give to another. Ultimately, even if we get the best scientific explanations of the processes that govern those occurances, we are still left with "Why?" That is, to me, part of what I am doing in my meditations – trying to work with those almost choking doubts, to find, if not answers, at least a way to deal with the reality of my situation.

You’re right. Where does the second quote say that karma is ignorance? Karma is caused by ignorance, it seems to say. Unless we are willing to believe that a match is a fire, I’m not sure where you are finding a contradiction here.

I’m sorry, I phrased it improperly. First, the article said that karma is volition, then it said that karma is caused by ignorance. I think that the first part is saying that it is your choice that determines what sort of karma you store up for yourself, while the second part is probably saying that it is bad karma that is caused by ignorance. This is what I have a problem with – if it is ignorance that causes bad karma, then why does it even exist because I don’t think that ignorance is capable of making a choice. Or is it saying that all karma is caused by ignorance until one becomes enlightened and karma no longer applies? That makes more sense to me for some reason. I’m just guessing here, since the wording isn’t specific enough. karma is choice, then it cannot be caused by ignorance, since there is no choice in ignorance. I have found that the best explanation of karma is the simplest – "it is the law of cause and effect." This is not to imply that the universe is fatalistic nor that choice is irrelevant. It is a recognition of the effects of past thoughts, choices, and actions, on the future. It is a recognition that our world is shaped by our perceptions, which are shaped, often clouded, by things we have thought or done in the past. Karma is as organic (in the sense of complexity), I think, as the universe itself and cannot be codified as some simple idea. It is, I would think, the method by which all things move and pave the paths in front of themselves.

I guess that’s my main issue in understanding this – it appears that the cause starts at person A and the effect is in person B and sometimes many other people that are connected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First and foremost, I think you’ve hit on a problem and a decent solution. Individuality is a myth in that we are not in any way fundamentally disconnected from anything around us. Materially, emotionally, "karmically," we are all inextricably intertwined with most everyone around us. It’s simple enough to look to modern physics to see that this is true. There are many levels of karma, then, to be considered. Certainly individual karma is very important. The thoughts, for instance, which I do not act on still can have very large effects in my own mind. Getting addicted to a drug, getting thrown in jail, learning a new language or working hard to become famous – all of these can have an enormous impact on my own life. As you’ve already noted, however, the effects ripple out as the waves do when you throw a stone into the water. There is no reason that it has to be one or the other.

Yes, that makes sense. Do we have little control over it? Sometimes, when we set the ball rolling, there is little we can do to stop it. There is much to be said, however, for recognizing that actions have consequences and working to make those future consequences a little more… palatable?

thanks for the input, Isabella

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea of karma has been on my mind and it remains unresolved in the sense that on the surface it seems to make sense, but it leaves many unanswered questions. This is my attempt at trying to unravel the mystery of something that is commonly described as cause and effect. This phrasing is something that makes logical sense, and I think it is this that draws many people in to this concept, and I am no exception. Currently, just thinking about it has my mind literally running in circles, my mind feels like it is stuck in a loop. This, I think, cannot be a good thing, thought I have a hunch that this concept is somehow designed to do that. In light of the Buddhist concept of detachment, I do not see how focusing the opposite of detachment makes sense. This is what I think the concept of karma does. If you are detached, then why would you focus on karma in order to have a better quality of attached life in the next rebirth? And further, what does karma matter when one becomes awake/enlightened? It seems to me that at this point, karma ceases to have any effect and if that is the case, then karma never had any effect. I am going to start quoting various descriptions of karma, as it is easier than to rephrase them.

"Why would you focus on karma in order to have a better quality of life in the next rebirth?" For many, the kind of detachment practiced by the sangha is not possible. There are children to feed, businesses to run, love to be made, and ill parents to take care of. Many are not able to keep all the rules, walk around in the robes, support themselves by begging, etc. The idea, then, is to live a good secular life in the hopes of being reborn in a better position, from which one can really begin the work of enlightenment. It was once described to me as a football game: the monks and nuns are the ones out there on the field, doing the grittiest fighting. The lay people are like the water boys, the cheerleaders, who aren’t actually getting knocked around, but support the team in their own particular ways. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Karma is the law of moral causation. The theory of Karma is a fundamental doctrine in Buddhism. This belief was prevalent in India before the advent of the Buddha. Nevertheless, it was the Buddha who explained and formulated this doctrine in the complete form in which we have it today. What is the cause of the inequality that exists among mankind? Why should one person be brought up in the lap of luxury, endowed with fine mental, moral and physical qualities, and another in absolute poverty, steeped in misery? Why should one person be a mental prodigy, and another an idiot? Why should one person be born with saintly characteristics and another with criminal tendencies? Why should some be linguistic, artistic, mathematically inclined, or musical from the very cradle? Why should others be congenitally blind, deaf, or deformed? Why should some be blessed, and others cursed from their births?

This has been called "Great Doubt." To paraphrase a book I love, why does life often feel like way we feel when we go to an ATM and find that our accounts have been emptied? A few minutes ago, we were sure that we were rich, but something is wrong. Without explanation, we suffer, when we know it should be otherwise. This is an existential problem of the most massive and complex kind. Theologians in the theistic faiths have wrestled with it for many years without astounding success, as far as I can tell from my readings of the literature. Agnostics and atheists too have had some difficulty, but it hasn’t been quite as difficult, for there is no tension between a good god and an evil creation to deal with. The answer to those questions, I think, is not something that anyone can give to another. Ultimately, even if we get the best scientific explanations of the processes that govern those occurances, we are still left with "Why?" That is, to me, part of what I am doing in my meditations – trying to work with those almost choking doubts, to find, if not answers, at least a way to deal with the reality of my situation. Either this inequality of mankind has a cause, or it is purely accidental. No sensible person would think of attributing this unevenness, this inequality, and this diversity to blind chance or pure accident. In this world nothing happens to a person that he does not for some reason or other deserve. Usually, men of ordinary intellect cannot comprehend the actual reason or reasons. The definite invisible cause or causes of the visible effect is not necessarily confined to the present life, they may be traced to a proximate or remote past birth."

No sensible person would think of that? I’m not sure at all that I agree with that. _Many_ sensible people see the world as a large random machine which occasionally breaks and grinds a person in its cogs. The above seems to me to be no more than an answer to the observation of inequality. What bothers me about it is that it is no different than the concept of punishment/reward, and no different than saying if you are bad, you are going to hell and if you are good, you are going to heaven. What stands out to me is that whether it is punishment or reward you rack up in your karmic bag, it is still one big punishment as you are still in the cycle of death/rebirth. So what difference does it make whether you are a rich man or poor man if you are still ignorant of yourself?

A poor man often doesn’t have the luxury of stopping to think about himself. A very rich man often doesn’t have any reason to. It’s somewhere in between the two that you are both #1) comfortable enough to be able to slow down and think about what’s going on and #2) uncomfortable enough that you have that itching doubt that something isn’t right. Your status in life surely changes both your ability for and impetus toward introspection. The question is a good one, though. What of a man who gains the whole world but loses his soul? "Ignorance (avijja), or not knowing things as they truly are, is the chief cause of Karma. Dependent on ignorance arise activities (avijja paccaya samkhara) states the Buddha in the Paticca Samuppada (Dependent Origination)." The above quotes are from the same article. On the one hand, karma is volition, and on the other hand, karma is ignorance. That’s one big contradiction. There is no volition in ignorance. So what is karma then – is it ignorance or volition?

Where does the second quote say that karma is ignorance? Karma is caused by ignorance, it seems to say. Unless we are willing to believe that a match is a fire, I’m not sure where you are finding a contradiction here. I have found that the best explanation of karma is the simplest – "it is the law of cause and effect." This is not to imply that the universe is fatalistic nor that choice is irrelevant. It is a recognition of the effects of past thoughts, choices, and actions, on the future. It is a recognition that our world is shaped by our perceptions, which are shaped, often clouded, by things we have thought or done in the past. Karma is as organic (in the sense of complexity), I think, as the universe itself and cannot be codified as some simple idea. It is, I would think, the method by which all things move and pave the paths in front of themselves. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Cause and effect, but, there is more than cause and effect in the theory of karma. For instance, say a man kills another man. The cause is the action of killing and the effect is death – right? So, there you have a cause and effect – now the bad karma resulting from this is a third factor and the side effect is the psychological impact this act had on the killer and the psychological impact this death had on any people connected to the deceased man. This is quite a bit of karma that doesn’t just effect the doer, but also people that had nothing to do with the doer. And it goes on and on in this way in many different circumstances, and karma is not an individual possession but the consequence of every single action that ever took place. What I imagine is and endless interconnected web that ties everyone that ever existed togather in one big karmic ball. Is karma then individual or is it simply the nature of the world itself over which we have little control?

First and foremost, I think you’ve hit on a problem and a decent solution. Individuality is a myth in that we are not in any way fundamentally disconnected from anything around us. Materially, emotionally, "karmically," we are all inextricably intertwined with most everyone around us. It’s simple enough to look to modern physics to see that this is true. There are many levels of karma, then, to be considered. Certainly individual karma is very important. The thoughts, for instance, which I do not act on still can have very large effects in my own mind. Getting addicted to a drug, getting thrown in jail, learning a new language or working hard to become famous – all of these can have an enormous impact on my own life. As you’ve already noted, however, the effects ripple out as the waves do when you throw a stone into the water. There is no reason that it has to be one or the other. Do we have little control over it? Sometimes, when we set the ball rolling, there is little we can do to stop it. There is much to be said, however, for recognizing that actions have consequences and working to make those future consequences a little more… palatable? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember a particular experience that really stands out in my mind probably because it was a lesson of sort. I was shopping with my daughter in a department store. She found a tiny

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Response: